177 ballots: Ingram and Gerhart in dead heat
Well, this is getting more and more interesting - and less and less clear - as time goes on. We're now showing Mark Ingram and Toby Gerhart in a virtual dead heat, separated by just couple tenths of a percentage point - 41.4% to 41.1%.
Ndamukong Suh is now solidly in third place, with 36.8% - and Colt McCoy clearly in fourth, with 31.6%. As we've been tracking all along, Tim Tebow is a lock for fifth.
Update: Here's the latest regional breakdown.
| name | Fan | Formers | West | SW | MidW | South | Mid-Atl | NE | Unknown |
| M Ingram | 1 | 2 | 20 | 44 | 44 | 48 | 25 | 26 | 16 |
| T Gerhart | 0 | 6 | 42 | 45 | 47 | 40 | 17 | 15 | 14 |
| N Suh | 3 | 4 | 17 | 97 | 48 | 43 | 10 | 12 | 7 |
| C McCoy | 0 | 14 | 20 | 49 | 21 | 23 | 17 | 17 | 6 |
| T Tebow | 0 | 4 | 6 | 6 | 3 | 19 | 10 | 6 | 3 |
Kari Chisholm | December 8, 2009 | Comment on This Post (91 so far) |
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Comments
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How is Suh third if he has the most votes?
Posted by: zach | Dec 8, 2009 2:20:39 PM
Explain please, if Suh has the most points why isn't he in the lead.
Posted by: jclay | Dec 8, 2009 2:22:07 PM
I have no clue either website seems bogus he has been in 3rd for every update and he still has more votes and points than the other two who are in a "dead heat" and they are not even on the top. I don't know who this guy thinks he is.
Posted by: Mitch | Dec 8, 2009 2:23:33 PM
I have no clue either website seems bogus he has been in 3rd for every update and he still has more votes and points than the other two who are in a "dead heat" and they are not even on the top. I don't know who this guy thinks he is.
Posted by: Mitch | Dec 8, 2009 2:23:34 PM
Geez people, how about reading the web site and the MULTIPLE times they explain how they do their predictions before asking the same old questions.
Posted by: roll tide | Dec 8, 2009 2:24:23 PM
Do these projections assume that the people who have not responded are going to be similar to those that have? Is this plausible, or is there a reason that some people have not chosen to make their pick public (i.e. it would be a less "popular" pick for whatever reason: it would be a pick that would put them at odds with their regional preference, or it would be personally embarrassing to reveal the pick, etc.). If so, then unlike previous years, the assumption that the missing data can simply be imputed may be incorrect. Curious to learn more about your model. And curious to see at the end of the day how similar the "open" picks are in each region versus the "hidden" picks.
Posted by: Kevin | Dec 8, 2009 2:24:29 PM
You Suh fan's are idiots! Read anything on this site and it tells you the rankings are where they are projected based on the information on the votes gathered.
Posted by: Eddie | Dec 8, 2009 2:25:15 PM
Around the horn just had these votes released
Tim Cowlishaw
1. Gerhart
2. Suh
3. Ingram
Bob Ryan
1. Suh
2. Gerhart
3. Ingram
Jay Mariotti
1. Ingram
2. Suh?
3. ?
Woody Paige
1. Suh
2. ?
3. ?
Posted by: Allan | Dec 8, 2009 2:25:36 PM
It's the projected totals. I would imagine many of the ballots not taken into account are from the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast, where Suh won't get as many votes as he should.
It'll be a travesty if he doesn't win, but it looks like many voters still don't have a grasp on what "most outstanding football player in the country" really means.
Posted by: CJ | Dec 8, 2009 2:26:41 PM
Will there be enough votes that 'go public', to predict this year? This race is just too close to call right now.
Posted by: bamafan | Dec 8, 2009 2:26:45 PM
he is third because they are projecting the vote totals. right now he is leading in all of the votes they have been able to verify. however, once all of the votes are in they are projecting that he will finish 3rd. Not really sure how that works considering if the pace continues the way it already has he will end up with the most 1st place votes? I guess it will be a result of voters keeping him off their ballots altogether. That just goes to show the voters bias towards giving the H-Man to an offensive player, as Suh's performance this year should guarantee himself a spot on every voters ballot since he was one of the top 3 oustanding players in the nation this year IMO.
Posted by: PA4BIGRED | Dec 8, 2009 2:27:13 PM
Read the web site would ya, it's a prediction, not a running tally.
Posted by: Dave | Dec 8, 2009 2:27:34 PM
It is to hard to read the answer when you could ask someone...
Posted by: Read | Dec 8, 2009 2:27:55 PM
The reason is that Suh leads in areas where a higher proportion of the votes have been tabulated: The midwest and the southwest. Suh lags in other areas where they expect more votes later.
Basically, he is extrapolating with the assumption that all voters in each geographic region vote on average the same as the votes he has been able to tabulate. This is a possibly false assumption, and it could well be that Suh will win. I hope so.
Posted by: Jerry | Dec 8, 2009 2:28:25 PM
People asking why Suh is third even though he has more "current" votes ARE IDIOTS. Do you not know how predictions work? There is regional bias in the heisman, so obviously the current trends do not continue across all regions. Knowing the amount of regional votes remaining tends to let you know the trend for the future...which will not resemble the present.
Posted by: ROLLMF'NTIDE | Dec 8, 2009 2:28:40 PM
roll tide, I didn't have time to read the whole website that why I thought somebody who had could explain it quickly to me. Sorry, for the trouble.
Posted by: jclay | Dec 8, 2009 2:29:47 PM
Suh isn't leading(even with most first place votes) because some/alot of idiot voters are biased for offense only or can't comprehend his stats towards yards and touchdowns, so he isn't listed on any of their ballots. The ballots ask a voter to list their top3. It's a crime that a player has a year defensively that no one has witnessed in their lifetime, especially a lineman. Suh's stats for DT are unheard of.GBR
Posted by: mike t | Dec 8, 2009 2:29:50 PM
If you are wondering why Suh is first right now but projected third its all due to what voters have already voted. Its like projecting an election. If all the votes have come in from an area that lean one way heavily (Suh voters) it is still likely that once all the votes are tallied he won't be the one.
Posted by: Mike Donovan | Dec 8, 2009 2:29:52 PM
Agree with roll tide. Please, please, please read the web site where they explain, in detail, how they make their prediction. Sheesh. I thought that was the first thing they taught us in school: READ DIRECTIONS. That being said, GO SUH AND GO BIG RED!!!
Posted by: dally | Dec 8, 2009 2:30:43 PM
I'm guessing that Suh is in third because even though he is the points leader, those points are mostly from votes in the areas he was expected to be picked. The rest of the unaccounted for votes are likely from areas that will vote for Ingram or Gerhart (West Coast and Southeast). Suh will also lose votes from Texas to McCoy probably, even though he tossed him around last Saturday.
I hope Suh can pull this out, but I guess we'll see what happens as time goes on.
Posted by: Dan | Dec 8, 2009 2:30:51 PM
Guys...the votes EQUALLY DIVIDED between regions. Even if Suh is currently in the lead, if the trend shows that he is only getting 10% of the NE and W vote, they project that trend to continue for the ballets that they currently DO NOT have in those regions. Thus, because Gerhart and Ingram appear more consistently across all regions, they are projecting that they will at some point, pass Suh. Not 100% guaranteed, but that is the nature of predicting.
The one issue that they don't address is how many votes do not normally return their ballets and are they more weighted in a specific region. Also, apparently, some voters only vote for their #1 choice and do not fill out a number two and a number three.
Here's hoping that there are a bunch of people who put Suh in 2nd or 3rd that aren't releasing their votes. :-)
Posted by: Eric in KC | Dec 8, 2009 2:33:15 PM
I'd be curious to see a breakdown of how the votes that are known to have been submitted prior to Saturday compare to those after Saturday. Suh got quite a bump in popularity after the Big 12 game.
Posted by: Bob | Dec 8, 2009 2:34:23 PM
Joe Schad voted
1. Suh
2. Ingram
3. Spiller
Posted by: Allan | Dec 8, 2009 2:35:31 PM
Kari, What projection will you give voters who voted before Saturdays games? If McCoy got the majority of votes from the 10% of Stiff Arm voters who voted before Saturdays games, how much effect will that have on the 90% of the voters who voted after Saturdays games?
Posted by: Dave | Dec 8, 2009 2:37:34 PM
Dan...
Suh took McCoys votes, not the other way around, especially in the south..
Posted by: Matt | Dec 8, 2009 2:39:46 PM
I meant south west
Posted by: Matt | Dec 8, 2009 2:40:07 PM
I think people tend to vote on how a player put his team in the position they are at the end of a season. It is easier to look at a number 1 or 2 team and say, ok if Alabama didn't have Ingram, or Texas didn't have McCoy would they still be number 1/2. And the answer would probably be no. It is hard to ask the same about a player when the team they are playing on is rated number 19 or 20.
Posted by: layedbak | Dec 8, 2009 3:00:20 PM
GOOOOO BIIIIIIIIG SUUUUUUUUUUH!!!! GO BIG SUH!
Posted by: Suuuuhperman | Dec 8, 2009 3:09:04 PM
The award is for the BEST Player in the country NOT the best team. Suh would be the BEST PLAYER on any tem he happened to be on.
Posted by: Mark | Dec 8, 2009 3:11:03 PM
The Hypesman has always been a complete farce. I mean Eddie George and Gino Toretta won it for crying out loud. The only way to make this trophy legitimate again is to award it to Suh.
Posted by: Troy | Dec 8, 2009 3:31:11 PM
go toby!
Posted by: Ceci | Dec 8, 2009 3:31:47 PM
My buddy h3 is an autistic-savant. He took a look at these numbers and said that he calculates Gearhart as the winner. He is probably right. He makes rainman look like a retard. If he could function with a computer, he would post it himself, but the lights from the monitor make him have a seizure.
I still wish that Clausen would get more play. Oh well...
Posted by: roz | Dec 8, 2009 3:32:05 PM
DISAGREE...If you follow NCAA college football at all, then you will know that the SEC is by far the toughest conference in college football period, and the talent in the SEC is far greater than any other conference in america. Now if you take that and factor in that ALABAMA has one of ,if not the best tradition in college football, then you will realize that even the worst teams will play ALABAMA harder than any team in america. With that being said, now factor the rankings of the teams that ALABAMA beat and the total yards after contact, along with the numbers of bust thru tackles that Mark Ingram ran thru on his on merit and power and it becomes very clear and simple to determine who the next Heisman award should go to.. Mark Ingram of The University Of Alabama...Now lets here form you on this post..
Posted by: Paul | Dec 8, 2009 3:33:06 PM
SUH should win this award
Posted by: Chad | Dec 8, 2009 3:34:05 PM
only if mark ingram was white... he would be leading by a landslide.
Posted by: bama phan | Dec 8, 2009 3:34:14 PM
eddie
The only idiot that I see is the one that wants to trash another person asking a question. If they didn't see the explanation, why don't you explain to them where it is unless you are nothing but a bitter, useless, self-important, little man. (maybe a Tebow fan)
Posted by: george | Dec 8, 2009 3:38:23 PM
Mark Ingram is inconsistent and arguably not the best running back on his team or in the nation.
Posted by: sam | Dec 8, 2009 3:42:45 PM
I dont know how this could be anyones but Ingrams if you take into account that Gerhardt had 52 more carries than Ingram, Ingram has to split his time as RB with Trent Richardson.....and Stanfords schedule isnt as strong as Alabama's either. As for Suh hes a great player but Nebraska played 3 Ranked teams all year long, Vtech(loss), Missouri (win), and Oklahoma the highest at #20 (win). If they had played harder teams maybe but that schedule is ugly for a heisman candidate. This should be Ingrams but its looking like some people in the south still have chips on their shoulders for Alabama.
Posted by: Nick | Dec 8, 2009 3:42:52 PM
its bad ever one hates bama so they dont vote for mark ingram thats wrong
Posted by: bama_#3 | Dec 8, 2009 3:55:45 PM
DISAGREE...If you follow NCAA college football at all, then you will know that the SEC is by far the toughest conference in college football period, and the talent in the SEC is far greater than any other conference in america. Now if you take that and factor in that ALABAMA has one of ,if not the best tradition in college football, then you will realize that even the worst teams will play ALABAMA harder than any team in america. With that being said, now factor the rankings of the teams that ALABAMA beat and the total yards after contact, along with the numbers of bust thru tackles that Mark Ingram ran thru on his on merit and power and it becomes very clear and simple to determine who the next Heisman award should go to.. Mark Ingram of The University Of Alabama...Now lets here from you on this post..
Posted by: Paul | Dec 8, 2009 3:55:45 PM
Johnny Rogers voted Suh #1 not #3
Posted by: Dan | Dec 8, 2009 3:57:04 PM
DISAGREE...If you follow NCAA college football at all, then you will know that the SEC is by far the toughest conference in college football period, and the talent in the SEC is far greater than any other conference in america. Now if you take that and factor in that ALABAMA has one of ,if not the best tradition in college football, then you will realize that even the worst teams will play ALABAMA harder than any team in america. With that being said, now factor the rankings of the teams that ALABAMA beat and the total yards after contact, along with the numbers of bust thru tackles that Mark Ingram ran thru on his on merit and power and it becomes very clear and simple to determine who the next Heisman award should go to.. Mark Ingram of The University Of Alabama...Now lets here from you on this post..
Posted by: Paul | Dec 8, 2009 3:57:06 PM
someone said that ingram had less td's so he didn't deserve it???? Since when did the most td's win the trophy.
Posted by: Stephen | Dec 8, 2009 3:57:42 PM
DISAGREE...If you follow NCAA college football at all, then you will know that the SEC is by far the toughest conference in college football period, and the talent in the SEC is far greater than any other conference in america. Now if you take that and factor in that ALABAMA has one of ,if not the best tradition in college football, then you will realize that even the worst teams will play ALABAMA harder than any team in america. With that being said, now factor the rankings of the teams that ALABAMA beat and the total yards after contact, along with the numbers of bust thru tackles that Mark Ingram ran thru on his on merit and power and it becomes very clear and simple to determine who the next Heisman award should go to.. Mark Ingram of The University Of Alabama...Now lets here from you on this post..
Posted by: Paul | Dec 8, 2009 4:00:25 PM
Most of Suh`s votes are from his own region, and they all declared on Saturday night, to try and sway the vote.
So he is ahead in actual known votes, but will fall behind in projected votes.
Pretty simple, really.
Posted by: Pete | Dec 8, 2009 4:05:32 PM
its not going to matter in the end anyway roll tide, cuz Suh is going to eat the other four contenders in New York. They'll have to award him the heisman by default. GO BIG RED!!!!
Posted by: big lew | Dec 8, 2009 4:06:53 PM
For those of you saying "Ingram played a tougher schedule" or "the SEC is great so that means Ingram should win" you should look at the stats. Gerhart played statistically better rush defenses. Also if you look at the Arkansas and Auburn games Ingram rushed for a COMBINED 80 yards. That's right. 80 rush yard in two games combined. Gerhart's lowest single game total all year was 82 yards rushing. Let's face it, Ingram isn't even the best back on his team let alone the most outstanding player in the country.
Posted by: Myc | Dec 8, 2009 4:09:14 PM
Paul, stop posting the same thing. It's completely biased and makes you sound like a moron.
Also, why does the fact that Ingram splits carries mean that he should WIN the Heisman. That doesn't make any sense at all. If he was the "Most Outstanding Player" in the country he wouldn't be splitting carries. Also, you can't also use that to add to his stats. He finished with what he finished with, period. He has a good YPC average, but it's not the best in the country.
Also, considering that you see what Ingram did every single year by atleast 1, and usually multiple, running backs it isn't that special. Considering no one, atleast unbiased people, has seen what Suh accomplished this year it seems pretty simple. I'm still waiting for the guy who has seen 20 better defensive tackles in the last 20 years. That should be an entertaining list!!
Posted by: Kobra | Dec 8, 2009 4:14:10 PM
Toby for Heisman! This is what the award was originally intended to be for. He is the true winner!
Posted by: Ty | Dec 8, 2009 4:15:37 PM
SUH will win every award he is eligible for, be the number one pick in the draft, get most every football Coaches heisman vote and still be in a tight race because of alot of homer writers. The Heisman is a joke. Ingram is a nice back, but is he a Reggie Bush, Barry Sanders, Billy Sims, Bo Jackson, etc, no. Suh is the Bo Jackson of football this year. His athletic talent and abilities outshined everyone this year and last year. Teams adjusted their whole schemes around trying to block this guy. He wasnt just one aspect of the defense, he was the defense and because of his dominance, his teammates were better. Like I said, Ingram is a nice back, but you could plug in 15 other backs behind Bamas line and get the same result. SUH wins and the heisman returns to being a legitimate award.
Posted by: scott | Dec 8, 2009 4:22:52 PM
Craig James
1. Suh
2. Gerhart
3. Ingram
Andre Ware
Suh, Ingram, McCoy - no particular order but said them in that order
Posted by: Allan | Dec 8, 2009 4:31:07 PM
Suh is ahead with the people that are telling us how they voted. Maybe the others are not telling who they voted for because they know they should have given him more respect even as a defensive player then they gave him. Suh is by far the best football player in the nation this year. Unfortunatly he wear to high of a number on his chest though.
Posted by: Phil | Dec 8, 2009 4:37:51 PM
"DISAGREE...If you follow NCAA college football at all, then you will know that the SEC is by far the toughest conference in college football period, and the talent in the SEC is far greater than any other conference in america."
WRONG. If they are ahead of the Pac-10 at all, it's by a hair. SEC fans always think they can just SAY this without any facts and everyone will believe them. Look at the computer rankings of conferences and you'll see that UNBIASED ratings put the Pac-10 and SEC at roughly the same level. UCLA, which went 3-6 in the Pac-10 this year, beat Tennessee AWAY, a team which gave both Alabama and Florida major problems. Arizona State, which went 2-7 in conference this year, nearly beat Georgia at Sanford Stadium.
Toby Gerhart faced SIX top 46 rushing defenses in 12 games.
Ingram faced THREE in 13 games.
Toby played one fewer game but still rushed for 194 yards more than Ingram, against tougher defenses.
Ingram was held under 100 yards 5 times this season, Toby was held under 100 only twice.
Gerhart averaged over 200 yards per game against ranked teams.
"numbers of bust thru tackles that Mark Ingram ran thru on his on merit and power and it becomes very clear and simple to determine who the next Heisman award should go to.. Mark Ingram of The University Of Alabama"
You clearly haven't seen more than 10 seconds of Toby Gerhart this year. If you had, you'd be running away from mentioning broken tackles as fast as you could. You would mention Ingram's speed and elusiveness, since those are his advantages over Gerhart. Toby would BLOW INGRAM OUT OF THE WATER on broken tackles and dragged defenders. Check out this link if you dare: http://bit.ly/8Jn7qs
"...Now lets here form you on this post."
Nothing to say to that LOL
For those of you who say Gerhart should be penalized for having more carries, why don't you try rushing the ball 38 times in a game?
Posted by: Reasonable | Dec 8, 2009 4:38:52 PM
"DISAGREE...If you follow NCAA college football at all, then you will know that the SEC is by far the toughest conference in college football period, and the talent in the SEC is far greater than any other conference in america."
WRONG. If they are ahead of the Pac-10 at all, it's by a hair. SEC fans always think they can just SAY this without any facts and everyone will believe them. Look at the computer rankings of conferences and you'll see that UNBIASED ratings put the Pac-10 and SEC at roughly the same level. UCLA, which went 3-6 in the Pac-10 this year, beat Tennessee AWAY, a team which gave both Alabama and Florida major problems. Arizona State, which went 2-7 in conference this year, nearly beat Georgia at Sanford Stadium.
Toby Gerhart faced SIX top 46 rushing defenses in 12 games.
Ingram faced THREE in 13 games.
Toby played one fewer game but still rushed for 194 yards more than Ingram, against tougher defenses.
Ingram was held under 100 yards 5 times this season, Toby was held under 100 only twice.
Gerhart averaged over 200 yards per game against ranked teams.
"numbers of bust thru tackles that Mark Ingram ran thru on his on merit and power and it becomes very clear and simple to determine who the next Heisman award should go to.. Mark Ingram of The University Of Alabama"
You clearly haven't seen more than 10 seconds of Toby Gerhart this year. If you had, you'd be running away from mentioning broken tackles as fast as you could. You would mention Ingram's speed and elusiveness, since those are his advantages over Gerhart. Toby would BLOW INGRAM OUT OF THE WATER on broken tackles and dragged defenders. Check out this link if you dare: http://bit.ly/8Jn7qs
"...Now lets here form you on this post."
Nothing to say to that LOL
For those of you who say Gerhart should be penalized for having more carries, why don't you try rushing the ball 38 times in a game?
Posted by: Reasonable | Dec 8, 2009 4:40:53 PM
Its important to note that with the low % og votes in the ME, and Mid-Atl that things can still changed in Sue's favor. When more votes come in from those regions if Sue does just slightly better then expected in both he will be right back in the mix.
Posted by: Dennis | Dec 8, 2009 4:55:03 PM
I'd be curious to know how the regional patterns we are seeing above compare to historical patterns. Can you look and say "gee, compared to the last few years the west is voting more for the guy from the southeast." What I'm getting at is that I understand the weighting process based on historical regional differences (that is why Suh is in 3rd in your forecast although he leads), but how well do these new regional ratios hold up -vs- previous? It would seem that there can't be perfect alignment because the locations of the various leading candidates are different year-year (except, of course Tebow).
p.s. GOOOOO SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHH!!
Posted by: Doug | Dec 8, 2009 4:55:13 PM
GO SUH
Posted by: Colten | Dec 8, 2009 5:04:41 PM
You all need to look at Suh's stats. Maybe a defensive player should win for a change. Why does it always have to be a RB or QB! This goes to the best college football player and Suh has proved a point. Most of you probably have never seen him play! I have seen everyone of these guys play and the only one that has stuck in my head was SUH!!!!!!!!!!!! My Vote is for SUH!
Posted by: Kelly | Dec 8, 2009 5:04:56 PM
You can do it
Posted by: Colten | Dec 8, 2009 5:08:46 PM
SUH!!!!!!!!!!!SUH!!!!!!!!!SUH!!!!!!!SUH!!!!!!!!SUH!!!!!!SUH!!!!!!SUH!!!!!!!SUH!!!!!
Posted by: Kelly | Dec 8, 2009 5:13:47 PM
SUH will win every award he is eligible for, be the number one pick in the draft, get most every football Coaches heisman vote and still be in a tight race because of alot of homer writers. The Heisman is a joke. Ingram is a nice back, but is he a Reggie Bush, Barry Sanders, Billy Sims, Bo Jackson, etc, no. Suh is the Bo Jackson of football this year. His athletic talent and abilities outshined everyone this year and last year. Teams adjusted their whole schemes around trying to block this guy. He wasnt just one aspect of the defense, he was the defense and because of his dominance, his teammates were better. Like I said, Ingram is a nice back, but you could plug in 15 other backs behind Bamas line and get the same result. SUH wins and the heisman returns to being a legitimate award.
Posted by: scott | Dec 8, 2009 5:14:21 PM
I can understand giving it to Suh or McCoy over Gerhart, but come on. Ingram? In EVERY way of looking at it Gerhart's the better running back, except that his team isn't undefeated playing for the title. Not just more yards, TD's, etc., and zero sub-60yrd games (vs Ingram's 3) but also looking at opponents. Not only has Stanford faced much tougher competition than Alabama all year, but Gerhart's BEST games have come against the best opponents. 10 TD's in two games vs top-10 teams (USC, Oregon), and great performances in all games against ranked teams, averaging more yards per games and scores than his season average. That's stepping up to the stage in big games...and on a team with a lackluster defense. Alabama's defense got the ball back to the offense quickly and playing with big leads lets the runners go. Hell, 3rd and 10 is a running down for Stanford.
I won't complain *too* much if Suh or McCoy get it, but if Ingram takes it, that's a crime.
Posted by: Dan | Dec 8, 2009 5:23:05 PM
I agree with you Dan if Ingram gets it is a total prank, I also think that if McCoy gets it even bigger prank though. Gerhart doesnt have the supporting cast McCoy or Ingram has, Suh has Double and Triple teams all season. Gerhart and Suh put there teams on there back to win football games. They are the best football players in America hands down impact wise, both deserving of the H.
Posted by: Toby | Dec 8, 2009 5:39:50 PM
Football player
Job description: Win football games.
So how can the most outstanding player lose 4 games?
They can't. If either Suh or Gerhart was the most outstanding player they wouldn't have racked up four losses apiece. Not sure whether that is fair or not but that is the precedent that Heisman voters have set with very few exceptions.
Posted by: Kevin | Dec 8, 2009 5:40:32 PM
Heisman Trophy= the most outstanding player in college football, not team= Gerhart or Suh.
Posted by: Toby | Dec 8, 2009 5:48:21 PM
TOBY, YOU ARE AN IDIOT. YOU MUST BE FROM NEBRASKA. ISN'T NEBRASKA HOME OF THE 7 MAN FOOTBALL TEAM. ALL THIS DOUBLE TEAM TRIPLE TEAM TALK. NEBRASKA SID PADDED HIS STATS BY GIVING HIM CREDIT FOR SOLO TACKLES WHEN HE HAD HELP. CREDITED WITH 12 SOLO 2 ASSISTED VERSE TEXAS WHEN IN FACT AFTER WATCHING REPLAY 7 DIFFERENT TIMES OTHER PLAYERS HELPED ON THE TACKLE. PADDED STATS........DON'T EQUAL THE BEST. ALL SCHOOLS RECORD TACKLES IN A DIFFERENT WAY. IT'S UP TO THE SID AND NO DOUBT NEBRASKA PUSHES THE LIMIT. SHAME ON THEM.
Posted by: KC CRAWFORD | Dec 8, 2009 6:30:50 PM
"Football player
Job description: Win football games.
So how can the most outstanding player lose 4 games?
They can't. If either Suh or Gerhart was the most outstanding player they wouldn't have racked up four losses apiece. Not sure whether that is fair or not but that is the precedent that Heisman voters have set with very few exceptions."
Of course it's not fair. If Suh or Gerhart or you were on Alabama's team, they still would have gone 13-0. If Ingram had played for Stanford instead of Gerhart, Stanford's record would have been roughly the same.
The only way that logic works is if there were one person per team.
Posted by: Reasonable | Dec 8, 2009 6:31:02 PM
Kc, im not a nebraska fan, really they padded SUHS stats? Wow? Have you watched him play? If you watched all these replays you would realize how big a factor SUH is as his presence allows others to be better than they are ie. Crick. Shame on Nebraska for padding suhs stats? You must be a young child.
Posted by: Toby | Dec 8, 2009 6:52:00 PM
KC Crawford...let's see, you must be from Kansas City as you plucked out Suh pretty quickly, even though Toby mentions Gerhart first. Husker Hater?? You also must not have paid very good attention while watching the Nebraska game "7 DIFFERENT TIMES", because Suh obviously made all those tackles, even though his jersey was nearly pulled over his helmet on every sack. Face it, no matter how loudly you YELL WITH ALL YOUR CAPITALS, Suh is the most deserving of the Heisman Trophy, with Gerhart a very close second.
Posted by: Troy | Dec 8, 2009 6:52:46 PM
DAN, YOU NEED TO READ SOME EARLIER POSTS AND GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT ABOUT TOBY. HE'S THE BACK THAT IF HE WINS IT PROVES THE HEISMAN IS A FARCE. TO BAD EVERY TEAM ON THE WEST COAST WAS PITIFUL THIS YEAR AND NO OTHER CANDIDATES COULD TAKE SOME OF HIS WEST COAST BIAS VOTES.
Posted by: KC CRAWFORD | Dec 8, 2009 6:55:58 PM
"Not only has Stanford faced much tougher competition than Alabama all year..."
Are you crazy????
Posted by: Rolltide | Dec 8, 2009 7:00:03 PM
TOBY, NO , I'M JUST SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS A HELL OF ALOT MORE ABOUT COLLEGE FOOTBALL THEN YOU DO. SORRY I HAVE TO BE SO BLUNT BUT IT'S TRUE.
Posted by: KC CRAWFORD | Dec 8, 2009 7:00:47 PM
TROY, THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO IS SIGN OFF BECAUSE YOU ARE JUST SHOWING YOUR LACK OF FOOTBALL KNOWLEDGE. BYE BYE
Posted by: KC CRAWFORD | Dec 8, 2009 7:02:03 PM
ROLLTIDE, IT'S FUNNY HOW EVERYONE IS JEALOUS OF ALABAMA. IF INGRAM PLAYED FOR NOTRE DAME AND HAD THE SAME STATS AND THE WERE 12-0 HE WOULD WIN HANDS DOWN. I FEEL SORRY FOR ALL THESE ALABAMA WANT-A-BES
Posted by: KC CRAWFORD | Dec 8, 2009 7:08:03 PM
KC you have not even made a point. who would you vote then? Rolltide has a great point with the schedule.
Posted by: Toby | Dec 8, 2009 7:12:29 PM
MARK INGRAM HANDS DOWN
Posted by: KC CRAWFORD | Dec 8, 2009 7:14:29 PM
TROY, THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO IS SIGN OFF BECAUSE YOU ARE JUST SHOWING YOUR LACK OF FOOTBALL KNOWLEDGE. BYE BYE
Posted by: KC CRAWFORD | Dec 8, 2009 7:02:03 PM
Troll or complete raving idiot? You all decide.
For his sake, I'll vote troll. Nobody can be that ignorant.
Posted by: Kobra | Dec 8, 2009 7:17:43 PM
KOBRA NO BODY PULLED YOUR CHAIN SAY GOOD NIGHT AND GO TO BED.
Posted by: KC CRAWFORD | Dec 8, 2009 7:20:48 PM
KC --- Suh won National Defensive Player of the Week award three times this year. If they would have awared it last week, he would have won it a fourth time. You want me to "sign off" because you can't deal with facts and logic. Sorry if my football knowledge is getting in the way of all your yelling.
Posted by: Troy | Dec 8, 2009 7:27:26 PM
Joe Tessitore, play-by-play on ESPN. as said on air during this weekend's game Voting #1 Toby Gerhart #2 Suh #3 Ingram
Posted by: JW | Dec 8, 2009 7:39:32 PM
KC Crawford,
If you think Mark Ingram win hands down. Then he should be the number one draft choice in the up coming draft CORRECT?
Posted by: Kelby | Dec 8, 2009 7:47:12 PM
MARK INGRAM WON EVERY GAME HE PLAYED IN. HEY MAN I'M JUST KIDDING. I KNOW SUH IS A QUALITY PLAYER. I JUST REALLY FEEL IF INGRAM PUT UP THESE NUMBERS ON A NOTRE DAME OR USC OR OHIO STATE HE WOULD BE THE FRONT RUNNER FOR THE HEISMAN.
Posted by: KC CRAWFORD | Dec 8, 2009 7:47:32 PM
KELBY, HE CAN'T BE DRAFTED HE'S JUST A SOPH.
Posted by: KC CRAWFORD | Dec 8, 2009 7:49:02 PM
Ingram can't be the no.1 pick because he wont be eligible for the draft as a sophmore.
Posted by: PA4BIGRED | Dec 8, 2009 7:49:57 PM
Stanford lost to Wake Forest,Oregon State,Arizona,and California! Which of these teams have a defence? Gerhart would not stand a chance in the SEC playgorund, he is a good player on a bad team in a bad conference.
Posted by: MC | Dec 8, 2009 8:01:21 PM
tennesse 7-5 lost to UCLA 6-6 at home
georgia 7-5 lost to oklahoma st 9-3
LSU 9-3 struggled to beat Washington 5-7 by 8 points
mississippi 8-5 filled their non-conference schedule with cupcakes
arkansas and auburn both 7-5 were the only teams that had quality win of non conference opponents west virginia and Texas a&m.
dont really understand how this shows that the SEC is the most dominant conference there is like all of their fans claim. there is alot of parity in college football these days, and to claim that one conference is far and away better than other conferences is a joke. the pac-10 scheduled much better oppponents for their non-conference games. oregon alone played boise st, purdue, and utah. oregon st played cincinatti. USC played ohio st. bottom line SEC fans have a dellusional view of how great the conference is
Posted by: PA4BIGRED | Dec 8, 2009 8:22:44 PM
There should only be a single "first place vote", all or none. It is clear from hearing of many people's votes that they promote their favorite and punish whomever they want to lose by leaving off of the ballot. Then others get the 2nd and 3rd votes just to increase the chances of their favorite. What if our electorial college had a 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice every 4 years?
Posted by: Richard | Dec 8, 2009 9:19:40 PM
Gerhart has faced more top 40 run defenses than Ingram, has 11 more touchdowns and 200 more yards in one less game and if Ingram hadn't gotten an extra game to impress voters, Gerhart would've had more rushing touchdowns in november than Ingram had all season. His stats are far and away the best and Stanford wins 4 or 5 games this season without him. He is taking a huge workload this quarter, is getting an engineering degree and turned down any kind of heisman campaign at the beginning of the season because he is a humble guy, a class act and is a true student athlete. Ingram has excelled on a team with numerous other weapons and loads of talent. All of you pac 10 haters are ignorant, blind and probably stupid. The SEC has florida and bama, the two best teams hands down, but other than that the only thing they have is a serious false sense of superiority. Just an example, but UCLA, a team that went 3-6 in pac 10 play and finished in 8th beat Tennessee, the second place team in the SEC east. conference biases and being on an undefeated team are the only way you can argue against Gerhart for heisman.
Posted by: Alex | Dec 8, 2009 9:39:15 PM
First of all, I want to applaud stiffarmtrophy.com for ignoring all the noise and rhetoric and presenting not only "just the facts", but also statistically weighting/extrapolating on the available information in ways that makes their prognostication credible. I am so tired of all the so called "experts" on ESPN and every other channel and web site generally passing off their opinions - e.g. projecting McCoy as the winner (without any statistical data to back it up) as serious analysis or insight as to who is going win. Or, in the case of many of the aforementioned voters in the east, saying something approximating "Gerhart joined the race too late and wasn't a factor all season like the other candidates". Huh? A more self-fullfilling prophecy I've not heard, insofar as (other than what a player does on the field) these doofs are the ones who determine whether he's "in the race" for the rest of the lemmings. As if the fact that they didn't pay attention for most of the season is someone else's fault. The fact is, a graph of Gerhart's game-by-game performance shows him to be by far the most consistent performer amongst the top five candidates (or least the four on the offensive side of the line of scrimmage) against (on average) statistically stingier defenses - let alone the fact that unlike the candidates' schools in the SEC and Big 12, the Pac-10 schools actually play ALL of their conference's other schools as part of their schedule. His production led all candidates throughout the season (against at the time top-25 ranked teams: Washington, Arizona, Oregon, USC and California, as well as Notre Dame) - not just at the end of the season. That these facts have escaped so many voters' notice is nothing short of profound laziness. Too bad so many of these voters can't give their vote the serious research and contemplation this responsibility/privilege deserves.
Posted by: Danno | Dec 8, 2009 10:07:06 PM
an awesome article to read about an inspirational man, the epitome of what the Heisman Trophy stands for: http://www.gostanford.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/120809aab.html
Posted by: Brian Mendoza | Dec 8, 2009 10:51:42 PM
If this goes down to a few votes from winner to Suh and the former winners votes are the difference, they should be lined up to take hits from Suh.
Posted by: 10votes | Dec 9, 2009 9:46:43 AM
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Whose crazy idea is this?