More anti-Tebow backlash & Tim Brown's vote

Joey Johnston at the Tampa Tribune reports on the widening anti-Tebow backlash:

With ballots from the 925 Heisman Trophy voters due in New York by Wednesday afternoon, a curious phenomenon is sweeping through the airwaves. The anti-Tim Tebow movement.

He's also got the non-vote of 1987 winner Tim Brown:

"Everybody has been on me because Tim Tebow is not even on my list," said Brown, the former Notre Dame wide receiver who gets a vote as the 1987 Heisman winner. "Look, if you're a quarterback, in my mind, you've got to be playing for a national championship. I can't take a quarterback who has lost three games.

"Everybody wants to talk about his numbers. But it's like he's running quarterback sneaks from the 5-yard line. I don't necessarily find that as impressive as everybody else."

Of course, we don't yet know who Tim Brown did actually vote for. So, stay tuned...

Kari Chisholm | December 4, 2007 | Comment on This Post (65 so far)
Permalink: More anti-Tebow backlash & Tim Brown's vote



Tim Brown is a moron. Does he even watch football? If so it isn't evident from his comments. Wow. It is amazing that these comments come from so called former winners and analysts. I guess they think the running backs who have run the ball inside the 5 just tip-toed in. The hate is just apparent. Maybe he should have called Tebow "Whitey the Ghost"? You know, just sneaking in from the five yard line and all. Like every defense he has gone up against wasn't looking for the run. Tim, do you think they thought he was going to just drop back and throw the bomb on third in short in critical situations? No, you idiot. They knew he was going to run it right up there mouth. Guess what? He still made the first down quite often. An NCAA leading amount of the time. You are an imbecile, Tim Brown. It's not even a leap to suggest you have an agenda.

Sad, that we have to tear down these athletes that are 20 years old instead of lay the stats and facts out there. You know, level of competition, ranked defenses, strength of schedule. Yep, avoid the facts at all cost, Tim. Don't lay it out the way it really is, spew the garbage like Mike Wilbon did on PTI in the most pathetic attempt to discredit the accomplishments of Tebow.

Most are starting to believe the Heisman has turned into a hyped, politicized, and entirely discredited award. This year the Heisman may reach an all time low. Now the coaches, (June Jone etc,.you know who you are) are attacking the kids? Of course the voters are proving that everyone is fair game if it doesn't fit their personal mode. I think we should be able to attack back. Consider my post the first for calling out the voters, coaches, analysts, and fans that make personal attacks at the athletes. If you want to debate the merits of what they have done then bring it to a new level of discourse and act like you know how to be analytical about these awards and the players who compete for them.

Posted by: SG | Dec 4, 2007 2:54:09 AM

I've noticed this type of position from other voters and not surprisingly it's a position taken by NON-QUARTERBACKS. Eddie George had a similar view. I believe this is simply a backlash against quarterbacks by other positional players who are jealous of the amount of attention a quarterback gets by the media and fans.

Not that it matters though looking at the numbers. Although this position is not unique it seems to be a fringe element mostly held by non-quarterback players as Tebow is running away with the award so far.

Posted by: KG | Dec 4, 2007 4:19:19 AM

i think tim brown sent in his ballot for 'daniel mcfadden'...and it's being thrown out because he voted for someone who doesn't even play college football (seriously, i read this in an article somewhere).

Posted by: greg | Dec 4, 2007 4:51:37 AM

Brown, George, Ward......The logic they are using is, well, suspect to say the least. I'm starting to wonder if there is a new club forming? The one that says we screwed McFadden last year so lets make up for it by screwing Tebow this year.

Posted by: SG | Dec 4, 2007 4:54:16 AM

Notre Dame graduate, Tim Brown? Voted for the Nobel prize Laureate, McFadden? That is absolutely hilarious!

Posted by: SG | Dec 4, 2007 5:00:37 AM

Who is Tim Brown? He won a Heisman while playing for Notre Dame. Had he played anywhere else he would be a non-entity. His comments are as bogus as his Heisman. That is about as close to his non-logic as I can get. BTW, I wonder if he voted for the little QB from Boston College who had 4 losses the year he won it.

Posted by: ed schlein | Dec 4, 2007 5:03:00 AM

This is what really ticks me off: if it were so easy to score on all these so-called "five-yard QB sneaks," then why haven't we seen QBs with scores of such touchdowns in previous seasons??? People deride Tebow's stats without actually thinking about what they mean. Everyone in the stadium knows that Tebow is going to run on those plays -- including the entire defense -- AND YET HE STILL SCORES. THAT makes him an outstanding player. Did Chase Daniel make it into the end zone on third and goal in the first quarter last weekend? No. Point proven.

Posted by: Marc | Dec 4, 2007 5:32:10 AM

Not sure this is real, but it's funny either way.

Posted by: ST | Dec 4, 2007 6:00:12 AM


Posted by: josh | Dec 4, 2007 6:03:03 AM

Let's talk about TD's 5 yds or less.
McFadden's Rushing TD's:

5yd Alabama
1yd Alabama
2yd North Texas
4yd North Texas
2yd Chattanooga
3yd Florida International
1yd Florida International
2yd Florida International
2yd Florida International

Now Tebow's Rushing TD's:

1yd Western Kentucky
3yd Troy
5yd Tennessee
2yd Auburn
2yd Kentucky
2yd Georgia
3yd Georgia
1yd Vandy
1yd Vandy
5yd USC
1yd USC
3yd USC
2yd USC
5yd USC
5yd FSU

I'd say those numbers are pretty comparable. 15 of 22 for Tebow or 68% and 9 of 15 for DMac or 60%. Tim Brown is an idiot. McFadden should get used to being 2nd. Two years in a row now. Way to go Tim you deserve it.

Posted by: Derek | Dec 4, 2007 6:21:44 AM

So much for academic excellence. Maybe that's a new thing because ND has sucked for so many years now. Maybe back in the 70's & 80's they didn't care so much about academics. This guy obviously fell through the cracks.

Tim Brown... You're "Sofa King We Todd Did" (say it quickly)...

Posted by: Chris | Dec 4, 2007 7:13:36 AM

So I'm assuming that Brown did not vote for any quarterbacks this year. Who did he vote for in his top 3 then? I get Darren McFadden but who else is worthy of a top 3vote that is not a quarterback?

Posted by: Christy | Dec 4, 2007 7:14:02 AM

I'm glad that most of the former Heisman winners are getting this one correct. I'm tired of people acting like Tebow deserves the Heisman because he has more total yards and touchdowns than 'everybody' even though that's entirely not true.

Sorry guys but DMAC is gaining on Tebow and you better get ready for it.

The Heisman goes to the most outstanding player in college football and DMAC is the best player to step in the SEC since Bo Jackson.

You guys honestly want a future NFL fullback to win the Heisman? That's a joke and he would be a joke if he wasn't in the spread offense. Also he got to play 7 more quarters of football in his non-conference games than DMAC did, bolstering his numbers in the 4th quarter against Florida International and Florida's other weak opponents. If DMAC would have played through the fourth quarter of every game he would have ran for more than 2000 yards and 20 touchdowns and this wouldn't even be a discussion, but because Arkansas has class we decided we wouldn't stomp all over our easy opponents just to raise DMAC's Heisman stock. Maybe that's because he's obviously the best candidate and should win the Heisman.

Also, Tebow touched the ball 200+ more times on the season than DMAC and his yards per touch were 7.7 compared to DMAC 5.6. Two yards difference in a spread offense with the option of running is aweful. Face it, Tebow is just a guy with a big arm, is a short yardage back/fullback, and is in the perfect system. If he was on nearly any other team in the nation he wouldn't be even close to as good. DMAC could be on any team and still be the best player in the nation.

Posted by: Stephen | Dec 4, 2007 9:59:50 AM

Let's see, about 40-50 votes are coming from previous heisman voters. Of those only a few have supported McFadden or Dixon (For their first votes). Other than that, I don't see McFadden gaining a bunch of traction. Look at the votes on this site and the other polls.

I'm not saying either will win, but to quote you "You better get ready" for DMAC finishing 2nd for this year as well.

Good luck to both guys. Either way a Heisman in the SEC is a good thing.

Posted by: chris | Dec 4, 2007 10:36:42 AM

Tebow is the real deal, people. He can run AND throw; the first to reach the 20/20 TD club. Just step aside and give Supeman the He15man Trophy already. God bless you, Tim!

Posted by: Johnny O | Dec 4, 2007 11:11:03 AM

Stephen, you are so misled it is laughable.

First of all, Florida didn't even play Florida International. You were probably thinking of Florida Atlantic.

Florida played FAU, who won their conference and is going to a bowl game. Tebow had 4 TD's in the game.

Arkansas played FIU, who won one game all season. McFadden had 4 TD's in the game.

You tell me which performance was more impressive?

Secondly, you talk about Tebow running up his stats against weak competition. Let's just look at Tebow vs. McFadden in their games against their 7 common opponents.

In games against their 7 common opponents (Troy, Kentucky, Auburn, Ole Miss, South Carolina, Tennessee and LSU):

McFadden accounted for 2+1+0+0+2+0+4 = 9 TD's and his team was 4-3.

Tebow accounted for 5+5+2+4+7+4+3 = 30 TD's and his team was 5-2.

Tebow has performed at an extremely high level all season long, no matter who the Gators are playing. You can't say the same thing for McFadden--he has completely disappeared for several games this year.

Posted by: matt | Dec 4, 2007 11:26:25 AM

Tebow padded his stats against Florida International? Interesting since Florida didn't play Florida International. Arkansas did though. How's this for weak opponents: Florida International, Troy, Chattanooga (not even Division 1A), and North Texas? For a combined record of 13-34. Florida's non-conference schedule was 29-19. Strength of Schedule...Florida 9, Arkansas 64. Coincidentally, McFadden tallied 8 of his amazing 15 rushing TDs against these dominant non-conference opponents. Wow...7 rushing TDs against SEC opponents...impressive! I think anyone who scores 7 conference TDs should win the Heisman. What...they can't give out 120 Heisman's?

Posted by: ST | Dec 4, 2007 11:52:40 AM

The story about Tim Brown voting for "Daniel McFadden" is a piece of satire I wrote in response to his comments about not voting for Tebow because he's an underclassman. Glad you liked it, though, ST.

Posted by: David Wunderlich | Dec 4, 2007 11:54:49 AM

Ed said of Tim Brown, "Had he played anywhere else he would be a non-entity."

Considering he's a likely NFL HOF member, I really doubt that.

Posted by: Craig | Dec 4, 2007 12:47:33 PM

Tim Brown should be disqualified from the HOF under his own guidelines beause he didn't even win a Super Bowl.

You want the real reason? Here it is (from wikipedia profile):

Brown chose Notre Dame and played there from 1984-1987, earning the nickname "Touchdown Timmy." In his first year, he set a freshman record with 28 receptions. As a junior, he set a record with 1,937 all-purpose yards. He made the College Football All-America Team twice and won the Heisman Trophy in 1987, becoming the first wide receiver ever to win the award.

There you have it folks - Brown knows that there is a new "TOUCHDOWN TIMMY" and that his old records are a joke compared to the newer, better Touchdown Timmy!!!

Posted by: skigator | Dec 4, 2007 1:30:54 PM

So, because Tebow may or may not play QB in the pros, it's a joke that he'll win the award. That is just god awful logic. It's the best COLLEGE player, and should have nothing to do with pro potential or draft status.

That said, Tebow's only a sophomore so he has plenty of time to improve. Banishing him to another position at the NFL already is extremely premature.

McFadden's fumbled the ball FOURTEEN (14!) times this season, and coughed it up three times against LSU despite his great overall game. He had TWO dominant games all season, and wouldn't even be in the conversation otherwise. His 5.7 YPC average is nothing special, and neither are his numbers compared to other Heisman winning RBs... kid is overrated if anything.

Tebow's clearly been the best player this season, and it's not even close. Even if you took out his rushing numbers, his passing stats are better than a lot of previous QB winners as well.

Posted by: killa3312 | Dec 4, 2007 2:42:32 PM

Tebow played extremely well in EVERY game, even when he was injured. Frankly, when you exhibit great leadership, compete in the best conference and break records formly held by some of the greatest players in history and carry close to a 4.0 gpa you are exactly what the Heisman is all about. Tim Tebow is a modern day Roger Staubach. The scary thing is he will get even better as a QB!

Posted by: JACK MANHEIMER | Dec 4, 2007 3:55:30 PM

Reposting this....

You guys bashing McFadden are pretty off-base.

1) McFadden had something around 180 yards rushing and 2 TD's and a TD pass in regulation against LSU. He had a Heisman type game in regulation alone.

2) Of course Tebow has more touchdowns, he is the absolute focus of the Florida offense. He touches the ball AT LEAST 2-3x more a game than DMAC. Beyond that, McFadden shares carries with Felix Jones, widely considered one of the top ten backs in college. On top of Felix, arguably the nation's top fullback plays for the Hogs. I wish I would have counted every time McFadden was used as a decoy and it resulted as a TD, I promise you it was more Florida fans care to acknowledge. If Arkansas had given the ball to DMAC inside the five every time like Florida did for Tebow, McFadden's numbers would be through the roof.

3) When Arkansas is on the goal line and McFadden does not score, he is used as a decoy and typically sets up the score. Should he be punished for that? Tebow will ALWAYS get credit for a touchdown, whether throwing or passing in this situation.

4) Are you really going to argue that Arkansas' four losses hurt worse than Florida's three? Please. If anything, it's worse for Florida because Tebow can have more of an effect on a game from the QB spot than DMAC can from the RB spot.

5) McFadden didn't just show up for the last half of the about 195 yards against Alabama in a dominating performance? Or 173 yards against Kentucky? He only had one bad game all year, and that was against Auburn. Auburn literally put 9 guys in the box and Arkansas' QB play is so pitiful that we could not back them off. Once again, this is to no fault of McFadden's.

Everyone arguing for Tebow is basically saying that QB's deserve it more than RB's. I don't give a rip about numbers, to be honest with you, because stats don't tell the story. If they did, Brennan would have won it last year, and Texas Tech's QB would be in NYC every single year. When I watch games, McFadden is the most explosive, powerful, dominating, game-changing player I have seen. Tebow is great, no doubt, but put McFadden in the wildcat 100% of the time and surround him with Florida's talent and see what happens. He obviously wouldn't throw for as much as Tebow, but he would run for a hell of a lot more.

The voters told McFadden last year to go home, have a great junior year, and come collect your trophy. He did just that, and hopefully Tebow will be told the same thing this year.

Go Hogs.

Posted by: hogfan | Dec 4, 2007 4:40:46 PM

Oh yes, because Tebow racked up 838 rushing yards by running from the 5 yard line every time. His high is actually 25, and he's had some very impressive runs (i.e. the one early in the Florida State game).

Posted by: Cody | Dec 4, 2007 4:59:38 PM

To Stephen and the others with the stupid arguments for McFadden over Tebow . . . Here's a question for you. How many teams in College football would want to have Tebow leading their team? He's a true leader - a difference maker - a game changer. McFadden's a heck of a running back but with 2 or 3 absolutely pitiful games, he's seriously inconsistent. You can't count on inconsistency. And 7.7 yards per carry versus 5.6 is awful? What are you stupid? There's so much more to say but you've been sniffing too much Hog crap to think straight.

Posted by: Cub Fan | Dec 4, 2007 5:19:28 PM

Hey Craig, when do likely HOF memebers get honored? Sorry, but who is Tim Brown? Must have been an off year when he won it. Again if you had read carefully you would have seen that I said I trying to be as illogical as he was being.

Posted by: ed schlein | Dec 4, 2007 5:57:25 PM

"2 or 3 absolutely pitiful games?"

You are going to have to point those out for me, because his only bad game was against Auburn.

Posted by: hogfan | Dec 4, 2007 6:39:09 PM

Funny how Tim Brown lost 3 games in his heisman trophy year....yet Timmy Tebowski isn't qualified after losing 3 games in his year....

Posted by: mike | Dec 4, 2007 7:22:23 PM

McFadden had only two bad games. Auburn (a close game in which both he and Felix Jones were shut down) and Tennessee (a blowout loss where he picked up 86 of his 115 yards after Arkansas was already down by 3 touchdowns or more. He racked up a ton of late yards against the Vols (who were more than happy to have the clock run out) but to begin the second half Arky gave McFadden the ball 3 straight times resulting in 7 yards and a punt. Hardly a Heisman like performance. And if Arkansas could throw the ball there's no way he would have gained a hundred yards. The Hogs are one of the few teams in the country down more than three touchdowns in the 4th quarter that goes exclusively to their running game.

To be honest though DMac is injury prone and played much of the year with one nagging injury or another. But it's not the voters fault he couldn't stay healthy. Also, one more correction. The reason he was rested against FIU was because of his bruised ribs and NOT because Arkansas is a classy program.

Posted by: KG | Dec 4, 2007 9:20:29 PM

Felix Jones > Darren McFadden

Anybody not voting Tim Tebow 1st on their ballot is nothing more than a myopic POS. Darren McFadden is a good player, but good players shouldn't win the Heisman. Great players should win the Heisman. Tim Tebow is better than any previous Heisman winning quarterback, and he's a better running back than McFadden inside the 10 yard line. Tebow's 22 rushing touchdowns are tied for the most ever by a QB in college football history. Tebow's 22 rushing touchdowns are more than any player(RB included) in the history of the SEC. That includes guys like: Herschel Walker, Emmitt Smith, Garrison Hearst and Bo Jackson. Tebow's 22 rushing touchdowns are also more than any Heisman winning RB(ahem...Mr. Eddie George, i mean, dumbass).

Posted by: Felix Jones | Dec 4, 2007 9:36:40 PM

When I typed Florida International I was thinking Florida Atlantic, my bad.

Cub Fan...For one thing let's leave the namecalling to the third graders and stick to fact based arguements. Second, the 7.7 to 5.6 number is including Tebow's passing yards as well. A 7.7 yard average per touch is not good for a dual threat QB in a spread offense, that has the extreme amount of talent that Florida has. That should be counted against Tebow. He took a team that is nearly, if not, as talented as last year's team that won the NC and finished 3rd in the East.

As far as DMAC having more than one bad game is an absolutely ignorant statement. He did admitadly have a bad game against Auburn (Tebow didn't have a particular good game for a dual threat QB against LSU -- which was DMAC's best game of his career), but so did our whole offense (due to the lack of the Wildhog). If you want to talk about numbers, if we give DMAC Felix Jones' yards and TD's he would have 2,842 rushing yards and 26 rushing TD's; as well as, 3,200 total yards and 31 TD's. None of that even counts the kickoff return numbers. Also give DMAC seven more quarters of playing time (time that he sat out against our non-conference schedule that Tebow did not) and the Heisman would be over now. I believe those numbers would be the best ever posted in history, shattering Barry Sanders' single season rushing record. I think that saying McFadden is overrated is one of the most uneducated things I've ever heard.

That's what you guys are neglecting, Tebow is the only guy in his offense (Harvin is descent but not even close to the talent of Felix, Hillis, or Monk) and DMAC is putting up astronomical numbers while sharing time with another top 5 back in the nation. Let's not forget that DMAC is the number 2 leading rusher in the nation while playing in the SEC.

If we're gonna play only the numbers game the players that should be invited to N.Y. should be Colt Brennan, Graham Harrell, and Paul Smith with Paul Smith winning the Heisman. Of course none of you Tebow lovers like to here about Paul Smith, you know the guy that has more total TD's and yards on the season than Tebow. Your arguement will be, "He played in Conference USA he can't win the Heisman," that was the same arguement people had against Boise St. playing in the BCS last year, "they can't play with a major conference team in the BCS." Wrong! Just like you guys are in comparing Tebow's and DMAC's numbers.

Everyone knows that a healthy Glenn Dorsey is by far the most dominant defensive player in college football (2nd most dominant behind only DMAC) but you couldn't tell it by looking at only his stats. He has less than 70 tackles, while some linebackers are near or past 150 tackles on the season, with more sacks and interceptions on the season as well. Maybe that example will open up your eyes at how ignorant comparing DMAC's and Tebow's stats.

If Tebow wins the Heisman it will be an injustice and they will have gotten it wrong at least 5 out of the last 6 years. The way the award is going they may as well give it to the most popular QB on a top 10 team every year, because those are nearly the only people that win it. They really got it right by taking Matt Leinart over Peterson, and Troy Smith over DMAC. Give me a break!

Posted by: Stephen | Dec 4, 2007 9:48:22 PM

Tebow and McFadden are the two best college football players in the nation and play in without a doubt the best conference in college football. It sucks that we have to argue over the two because both are amazing football players and athletes, and by arguing for one you are discrediting the other. If I could vote than I would absolutely chose Tim Tebow. I have watched Florida play several times this year and everytime I do I am amazed at this kids ability. If Florida's defense was any better than they would be on their way to their 2nd national championship. Tebow had done everything he could for his team to win games and the numbers he put up are out of this world. Of course McFadden is going to be a top 3 draft pick and will be outstanding in the NFL but there have been several games where he did not perform well. You cannot say the same for Tebow. Whether it be LSU or Western Kentucky, Tebow put up huge numbers and played awesome. Tim Tebow, sophomore or not, 3 losses or not, should be the 2007 Heisman Trophy winner.

Posted by: G Mase | Dec 4, 2007 10:27:42 PM

1)Most of McFadden's rushing TDs are against OOC pasties

2)Why is McFadden used as "decoy" sometimes near the endzone? If he could punch it in every time like Tebow then they'd just run him wouldn't they?

3)How effective is McFadden as a decoy? UF has a ridiculous redzone scoring/TD percentage, does Arkansas have it higher?

Posted by: David | Dec 4, 2007 10:53:21 PM

Tebow is good, with out a doubt, but im more impressed with physical ability than his stats. To me his stats are suspect, with only 838 yds rushing it seems to me that Tim with 68% of your TDs do you think he could have rewarded Percy,Andre and the other for getting the ball into the red zone so he could do his thing? Seems to me and maybe others he sure liked to call his number alot in the red zone and maybe short yardage. Same as last yr with Chris Leak as the starter once you got to the red zone guess what you happened? You replaced him with Tebow alot. Being QB and the physical player he is, he becomes a good short yardage fullback with the football in his to call his the 20 good but the 29 isnt that impressive. And yes we know the other teams where expecting him to run the ball, but i say give the credit to your OFFENSIVE LINE they are pretty good too, YA THINK? You would have to for a great passing attack. Percy could have done the same thing. Although a true RB would be good as too? So lets not make him out to be the superhero on the field, he's just the one that gets his number called mostly in the red zone and short yardage.
So I wouldnt call that the most outstanding...considering his team mates covered the other 75-80 yds for Tebow should be pretty easy to behind a good O-line for a physical player for an easy TD, IN YOUR SYSTEM!!! If i didnt know any better one might think he was A ONE MAN SHOW.
So dont expect everybody to jump on the Tebow bandwagon. If CJ Gables is anything thing near what he was at USC he will have to share the TDs a little more.

Tim Brown and the rest are entitled to their opinion just like you are to yours...thats why I say Darren McFadden for the Heisman even with a couple of bad game. Oh yeah he shares the ball with others (say hey to Felix) and still exceed last yrs lets SEE MR TEBOW DO THAT next yr maybe then you might consider him outstanding.

Thats my opinion i welcome your...

Posted by: SECfan | Dec 5, 2007 12:49:37 AM

David...The oline was pretty good for a bunch of sophomore and freshmen. However, the ball sharing thing. We have a good running back. Unfortunately he puts the ball on the ground and our coach doesn't like that so he goes with the guy with no fumbles. How many times did DMAC put the ball on the ground? Wonder if that might have cost a game or two this year? Funny, when the coach calls your number, then it is your number. When he calls for Percycution then Percy gets it. Percy was injured for a few games, Bubba was injured for a few games, and both didn't play while they were injured. Tebow was injured and still does not have full range of motion in his shoulder, but he maintained consistency and kept playing. He played with the shoulder and stayed in with what was found to be a broken hand in the FSU game. He is a competitor of the highest degree. Even in high school with a broken shin that could be heard popping running up the side line he played. He didn't ask to come out, he just gutted it out because he didn't think it was hurt that bad. This kid is one of a kind. Maybe McFadden will be one of a kind to, but there have been other better running backs. Tebow is re-writing the SEC record books with his first starting year at the reigns. Come back with some better stuff next time if you want to diminish the year Tebow has had. That is all.

Posted by: SG | Dec 5, 2007 1:33:01 AM

Tim Brown voted Kevin Smith from UCF his number 1.
Don't know Kevin Smith look him up.

2448 yards, 2nd most yards in a single season in NCAA history
29 rushing TD (lead the nation)
188 YPG (lead the nation)
Broke Marcus Allen's NCAA record for carries in a season

Posted by: Terence Zagers | Dec 5, 2007 3:11:43 AM

Tim Brown voted Kevin Smith from UCF his number 1.
Don't know Kevin Smith look him up.

2448 yards, 2nd most yards in a single season in NCAA history
29 rushing TD (lead the nation)
188 YPG (lead the nation)
Broke Marcus Allen's NCAA record for carries in a season

Posted by: Terence Zagers | Dec 5, 2007 3:11:51 AM

"Harvin is decent but not even close to the talent of Felix, Hillis and DMAC." - stephen

I almost fell out of my chair reading that one. Percy Harvin is one of the most talented football players in the country. I've seen a lot of ignorant comments on this board, but that has to easily be the worst.

Also, while DMac posted some strong rushing numbers this year, Ray Rice, Matt Forte and Kevin Smith all have more rushing yards, so DMac is NOT the #2 rusher in the country.

Posted by: PrplReign68 | Dec 5, 2007 3:31:42 AM

You make the call. You have a 1st and goal at the 5 yard line. You have a QB who has not fumbled all season and has not failed all season to score in this situation if given at least two attempts to score. What do you call?

I've watched football for several decades and I am very comfortable saying the confidence level that Tebow to going to score is similar to the confidence one has that the Globetrotters are going to beat the New York Nationals.

Posted by: PrplReign68 | Dec 5, 2007 3:43:07 AM

Tebow rushed for 75 yards against Auburn... as a QB. What did Dmac do? 43?

Posted by: John | Dec 5, 2007 7:43:17 AM must be correct, "Percy Harvin is one of the most talented players in the country." That must be why he couldn't make 1st team SEC honors. Remember that speed isn't everything, if that was the case Trendan Holiday would be far and away the best football player in the nation. Also, DMAC was a first team All-SEC and All-American. Felix made 1st and 2nd team SEC (not making 1st team at running back is absolutely ridiculolus -- though Moreno is pretty good) and he also made 1st team All-American. If there was a spot reserved for a FB on these respective teams Hillis would absolutely be 1st team All-SEC and probably 1st team All-American (no worse than 2nd team All American).

As far as DMAC getting used as a decoy sometimes, apparently none of you have actually watched the Razorback play this year. DMAC has the best linebacker, sometimes more than 1, playing a spy on him with at least 8 men in the box. A lot of times there is 9 or 10 in the box, with the absence of Marcus Monk and Crosby Tuck. Tebow wouldn't have 10 rushing TD's on the season if he had to face that every time he touches the ball. DMAC is used as a decoy because wherever he goes the whole defense follows and the person that actually gets the ball can walk into the end zone. This is the main reason that Felix Jones has such good numbers, because of DMAC.

Stop talking about the numbers, because they're pointless in this debate.

Posted by: Stephen | Dec 5, 2007 7:43:59 AM

Stephen: "Harvin is descent but not even close to the talent of Felix, Hillis, or Monk"

The hits just keep coming from this guy.

That statement is ridiculous and anyone who has watched college football at all this year knows it. Percy Harvin is one of the most dynamic players in the college game today. He is certainly much better than Hillis and Monk and you could make a good argument that he is better than Felix Jones as well (more yards on fewer touches).

Percy Harvin - 120 touches, 1380 total yards, 11.5 average, 8 TD's

Felix Jones - 136 touches, 1228 total yards, 9.0 average, 11 TD's

Peyton Hillis - 101 touches, 812 total yards, 8.0 average, 7 TD's

Marcus Monk - 12 touches, 116 total yards, 9.7 average, 3 TD's

Posted by: matt | Dec 5, 2007 7:57:28 AM

Harvin IS one of the most talented players in the country, and after Tebow wins the Heisman this season, you'll see Meyer spread the wealth to Harvin next season for his Heisman run. The kid averages, for his career, over 10 yards a touch... ten yards! You do know that he missed two games and still ended up with nearly 1,400 yards of total offense, right? If Percy returned punts and kicks, he'd have obsene total yardage stats.

The reason he didn't make first team all SEC is because of the injuries... point blank. Calling him 'not nearly as talented' as Felix Jones and Peyton Hillis is borderline hilarity.

Posted by: killa3312 | Dec 5, 2007 7:59:23 AM

wow, I would have thought Tim Brown understand how the game of football is played.

Posted by: mike | Dec 5, 2007 8:17:35 AM

You guys hung up on numbers are not seeing the forest for the trees. You can't compare numbers. Tebow is in an explosive spread offense where everything is focused on him as a QB. McFadden is basically running the wishbone and is a RB that shares carries with two other NFL backs. Why do you think Felix Jones is so successful? It's because he springs long runs when the whole defense bites on fakes to McFadden.

If you really think the numbers are the story, then you do not know much about football. If numbers told the story, Texas Tech's QB would be in NYC every year. If numbers told the story, Timmy Chang would be considered the best QB in the history of football, etc. etc. Both are great players, but at least three opposing coaches have called McFadden "the best player they have ever seen." Spurrier was literally at a loss for words in his post-game press conference. While obviously people are impressed with Tebow, no one is mistaking him for a once-in-a-generation type player. You know what all the "experts" are arguing? Whether Bo, Walker, or McFadden is the best back in the history of the SEC. Anyone that is even mentioned in the same sentence as those guys deserves the trophy, hands down. I hope the Heisman doesn't take a further step into complete anonymity this year by not giving the trophy to McFadden.

Posted by: hogfan | Dec 5, 2007 9:23:05 AM

The last NFL QB who could pass as well as Tebow and was a power runner played for Pittsburg and managed to win a few Games and rings while he was there. Maybe Tim will get a chance when his time comes.

Posted by: Tom | Dec 5, 2007 9:49:54 AM

Let's keep in mind that Tebow is an Academic All-American who spends his summers helping orphans in the Phillipines. While three of the other candidates have felony arrests and either can't or won't excel in the classroom. Character should count for something in my view.

Brown's comments are almost as inane as those of June Jones. Gee, maybe Florida should have transferred to the WAC where they would be undefeated. THEN, he'd deserve the trophy?

Posted by: Art | Dec 5, 2007 10:11:38 AM

Tim Brown is the MAN! Just because he doesn't want to vote for a 3 loss qb you guys are giving him crap? Give me a break- Tebow is a top 10 player in college ball, but he should NOT win the heisman, not this year. Tebow is as a much a product of the system as Hawaii's Colt Brennan, except Brennan went undefeated. No other starting qb in D1-A football can say that. How many can say they lost 3 games? a whole helluva lot. And as far those jokers who posted that Tim Brown doesn't deserve his Heisman- stop whining from your rolling-chair thrones at your computer while yopu crucify someone with a differing opinion. And if I remember correctly Tim Brown's explosiveness on offense and special teams was so great that his Heisman was most deserved (and since he did at ND, he also tougher academic requirements to deal with). I like how someone mentioned non-qbs winning the heisman- it is always much more difficult, so give someone who did do it (Brown) more respect for his opinion (if you agree with it or not) and realize that your golden calf Tebow is a qb at a big-time school and the reason he is getting so much attention is because of that- there may be more deserving candidates this year so swallow your fan-fare and think about Colt Brennan's last 2 games of the season: 10 TDs to 0 ints, with over 900 + passing yards. Now that sounds worthy.

Posted by: az | Dec 5, 2007 11:18:25 AM

The "anti-Tebow" movement has been alive and strong since well before Tebow was even the starter here. Last year he got a ton of flak for "just running the ball straight ahead" and detractors said he couldn't throw the ball. Well, this year he's averaging the highest yards/attempt of any QB in D1A (9.9 yards per attempt), he has just a few hundred yards less than Daniel on well over a few hundred fewer attempts (and a few fewer TD's), he has a streak of one TD rushing and passing in every game which means AT WORST he's a 2 TD guaranteed performer, he's the first 20/20 man in history and depending on how he plays against Michigan he will probably be the first 30/20 man as well.

Everyone that tries to take things away from him throw out bullcrap like...

1) He only does fades and short routes (already disproven in my post)
2) He only does QB dives for under 5 yards for his rushing TD's (even though someone already proved that McFadden does 60% of his runs from that distance to Tebow's 67%)
3) He has better playmakers (some have tried to say Felix Jones is better than Percy Harvin, florida's 2nd best guy, so that's bunk if you buy that argument) so obviously he'll have better numbers
4) People keyed on McFadden (you're a moron if you think people were blatantly trying to stop Tebow, and only Tebow... Geno Hayes of FSU called him out blatantly and got ran the hell over)
5) He has 3 losses (Mcfadden has 4)
6) He padded his stats (McFadden played a craptastic OOC schedule and of their common opponents Tebow did much better in those games)

and on and on...

Posted by: htowngator | Dec 5, 2007 11:51:41 AM

Stephen and friends:

I'm glad that Run DMC doesn't get the call in the red zone and is used as a decoy because there is a linebacker keying on him. When UF is in the red zone, there are 11 players keying on Tebow because EVERYONE KNOWS he is running the ball. Yet, he still cannot be stopped. That cannot be called a "product of the the system." That is called "the best college player in America" - which is, when I last checked, the only true criteria for winning the Heisman.

If McFadden's stats suffer because of all the talent at Arkansas, how come Arkansas lost 4 times? If you had 3 players more talented than Harvin, you would be playing in New Orleans for the BCS title.

Did McFadden really fumble 14 times? If so, that is ridiculous.

Posted by: skigator | Dec 5, 2007 12:00:58 PM guys are all just bitter Tebow fans. He is a glorified fullback. Brown is right. He needs to throw it more or win more to be considered as a Heisman quarterback. And how can you consider any bias here when the SEC is the most glorified conference in the NCAA. Let Tebow win it in the future if he deserves it then, but I would much rather take McFadden as the Heisman with what he can do. Remember, it is the most outstanding player in college football, and in no way is Tebow better than McFadden right now. The only reason Tebow has as many TD's rushing is becuase Florida lacks a true RB. McFadden still put up the numbers and he shares time with Felix Jones who would be a starter for any other team in the nation, including Florida if he played there.

Posted by: Peter | Dec 5, 2007 12:14:29 PM

Has a FB ever thrown for 3,100 yards and complete 68% of his passes with a 29/6 TD/INT ratio? I didn't think so. Calling Tebow a glorified FB is the most ignorant, idiotic thing ever posted on here. He can pass the ball, and pass it quite well and possesses one of the best deep balls in all of college football.

BTW, Arkansas had FOUR All-SEC linemen on his team, but yeah, he had no talent around him. Hawg fans are delusionaly biased.

Posted by: killa3312 | Dec 5, 2007 1:41:08 PM

By the way, the COACHES in the SEC voted McFadden as the offensive player of the year. I guess Tebow isn't superhuman as all ye suggest, or else all the COACHES would have noticed. You know, guys like Saban, Spurrier, Miles, Tuberville, etc. I think they know a thing or two about the game, don't you?

Posted by: hogfan | Dec 5, 2007 2:16:47 PM

McFadden won that based on his reputation and the fact that he's an upperclassmen... nothing more. The AP will get it right and vote Tebow as it's OPOY.

Posted by: killa3312 | Dec 5, 2007 2:20:56 PM

The Razorbacks have absolutely no good receivers (with marcus monk and crosby tuck out basically all season) and a QB that is probably the worst in the SEC. Due to this DMAC has to deal with a minimum of 8 in the box and usually 9 or 10. Apparently you Tebow lovers don't understand what the spread offense is. It is where you spread out 4 or 5 receivers leaving the line of scrimmage or "the box" pretty empty with at most 7 guys there. Tebow has faced a 6 to 7 man box all season while DMAC has faced 8 to 10 men in the box and is on the verge of setting the single season SEC rushing record (needs 167 yards). You guys are right though, his season isn't anything to remember. He's probably gonna break the SEC Single Season Rushing record, is second all time on the SEC rushing list with way fewer touches than Walker had, has scored over 20 total TD's this year, and has a better passer rating than Tebow.

Tebow is a great player, a great student, and a great person, he's just not the best player in college football. He'll probably win the Heisman next year even. McFadden is one of the greatest SEC players in history, and a great case could be made that he is the best running back and all-around player in the SEC of all-time. Without him sharing time with FJ he would have shattered the SEC rushing record for a career and for a season (twice). I don't know how you can argue with that. He's at least one of the 5 greatest players from the greatest conference all-time.

Posted by: Stephen | Dec 5, 2007 2:21:29 PM

Niice post killa...because DMAC didn't win SEC OPOY last year as an underclassman or anything. Absolutely correct, that's never happened. They always give that award to an upperclassman.

I can't even believe this is a debate on who should win the Heisman. DMAC is far and away the 'most outstanding player' in college football.

Posted by: Stephen | Dec 5, 2007 2:26:06 PM

No he's not. His numbers are laughable compared to someone like say, oh I don't know, Barry Sanders. He's had a very good college career, but statistically, he isn't as great as some of you make him out to be. He has FOUR all-SEC offensive linemen on his team (and don't say they're a product of McFadden when Felix Jones runs rampant behind that same line), a terrific FB in Hillis, and a coach whose system has always been built around running the football. Every RB that came to Arkansas under Nutt had lots of success (see: Cedric Cobbs). People accuse Tebow of being a system QB, but Nutt's system is built exclusively around the running game and he produces 1,000 yard backs like they're going out of style.

Tebow, OTOH, has had a historic season, numbers wise. Say what you want about stat padding (although he really didn't), but his numbers are unparalelled among SEC QBs all-time. He's already been called one of the greatest college player some have seen in the SEC and Lee Corse called him the best dual threat QB since Roger Staubach (Vince Young was great, but couldn't pass like Tebow).

Look, I like McFadden as a player... extremely talented and will be the top pick in the draft. This season, however, Tebow was better. Tebow runs the ball a ton and has NEVER fumbled, while DMAC fumbled 14 freakin' times this season. He hasn't had the consistent week-by-week production of Tebow, and believe it or not, like McFadden, teams DO game plan around Tebow. One argument I hear is that without Tebow, Florida would still be a bowl team and without McFadden, Arkansas would be lucky to win two games. Maybe the latter is true, but did you see Florida's backups this season? Trust me, I saw Cam Newton play, and he's no Tim Tebow. Tebow was the Florida team this season.

Posted by: killa3312 | Dec 5, 2007 2:38:24 PM

McFadden's attempted 11 passes all year... can you say slanted stats? Who cares if his passer rating is better when with the number of attempts Tebow has it wouldn't be close to his?

BTW, Tebow will go down as one of the SEC's five greatest players when his career is over, too, so that's pretty much a moot point. Becoming the first sophomore to win the Heisman will only increase his status amongst his peers.

Posted by: killa3312 | Dec 5, 2007 2:42:00 PM

Man, aren't we all a bunch of Tebow and McFadden homers? However, If Tebow gets it he deserves it. If McFadden gets it he deserves it (atleast from last year). However, the award is for the best player of the year. Who we all think or want to be that player will be determined Saturday night. I know who looks better than the previous QB's who won it, but I'm not sure I can say that the RB candidate looks that much better compared to previous RB's. We all have some sort of faulty logic and mine can be dispelled as good as the next. What I will say is that Tebow and McFadden represent two of the finest athletes in the country and both are great SEC team players. Good luck to both.

Posted by: SG | Dec 5, 2007 5:54:28 PM

and Tebow's running against 6 or 7 men in the box with the threat to pass while DMAC is running against 8 to 10 men in the box and a spy on him every play. If DMAC got to run in a spread offense where there were only 7 men in the box he would've probably broke Barry Sanders' single season rushing record this year, as well as ran for 30+ TD's.

As far as the arguement of HDN's offense being a system offense and producing a lot of 1,000 yard rushers -- I would argue that there is a HUGE difference in an SEC back rushing for 1,100 to 1,200 yards and 1,725 yards with the potential of breaking the single-season SEC rushing record.

Sorry, but DMAC is the most outstanding player in college football. I'm tired of talking to you Florida Homers. Good luck in your bowl game, and hopefully we (Florida and Arkansas) can both represent the SEC well this bowl season.

Posted by: Stephen | Dec 6, 2007 12:02:49 AM

duh,SG dont give me your drivel, you cant diminsh anybodys numbers they are what they are...period. However, you cant simply say 29 TDs and 22 passing makes Tebow some freak of nature. My point it was your O-line,Percy and Andre and others that got Tim into the red zone (same as last yr with Chris Leak)so he could exploit his greatest assets his toughness, size and just enough speed to get him in the end zone with a low turn over rate, that doesnt make him outstanding, just the most valuable(dont trust others not to fumble?). Now, when he can electrify the crowd with game breaking speed(runs)from anywhere on the field(not just 25 yds or less) and the ability to play any key positions, punt and KO returns (and do it well)then maybe you can be considered OUTSTANDING. So dont talk to me about how hurt he played it only says your tough. In the game against BAMA the Razorbacks lost in the final seconds Darren was OUTSTANDING, to bad he wasnt playing both ways maybe he could have broken up that last second pass for a TD. So go tell your Tebow tales to the gator nation, beside even the SEC coach feels the same way thats why they voted him PLAYER OF THE YEAR....
beyond that go SEC!!!

Posted by: SECfan | Dec 6, 2007 2:09:38 AM

Colt Brennan - 131 touchdown passes, 23 NCAA records, only undefeated team in America. Who else can say that? How can Colt Brennan not win the Heisman? If you are skeptical, I challenge you to watch last week's Hawaii Vs Washington. Colt is incredible. You might become a believer.

Posted by: joe | Dec 6, 2007 3:41:51 AM


Felix Jones can only laugh at McFaddens 5.7 ypc average, compared to Felix's average of 9.1

Felix Jones also is the one in the game on crucial 4th downs and 2 point conversions, while McFadden is on the bench sipping gatorade.

Felix Jones is surprised that McFadden is even an invite, when he isn't even the best RB on his own team.

Posted by: Felix Jones | Dec 6, 2007 4:15:37 PM

Wait, didn't past trophy winner Tim Brown play on an over rated three loss team?

When Tim Brown played at Notre Dame they had a 25-21 record over his four seasons and an 0-2 record in bowl games.

And let us not forget that Notre Dame won the national title the year AFTER Tim Brown left.

Posted by: AW | Dec 6, 2007 4:49:50 PM

It is so funny to listen to comments from fans who refuse to do research before they stick their foot in their mouth. Here is some real facts to digest.
"The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." -- Winston Churchill
33 of 41 years going back to 1967 the Walter Camp Award winner won the Heisman. No double Doak Walker Award winner was shut out of the Heisman, in history.
From 1990 through 2006 the Heisman was won 13 of 17 times by the candidate that won the Walter Camp Award. From 1990 through 2006 the Heisman was won every time a candidate won both the Walter Camp and the Doak Walker Award except in 2002. In 2002 Larry Johnson won the Walter Camp, Doak Walker and the Maxwell awards but did not get the Heisman. They gave it to Carson Palmer who also did not win the OBrien Award. From 1990 through 2006 the Heisman was won only twice with a single OBrien award (Chris Weinke 2000 and Jason White 2003). From 1967 through 2006 the Heisman was won only once after winning the OBrien and Maxwell only (Ty Detmer 1990). Ty Detmer did not go up against a winner of both the Walter Camp and Doak Walker awards. I watched Ty play. Tebow is no Ty Detmer, yet. No underclassman has ever won the award before 2007. McFadden’s awards (Doak Walker Award winner, the Walter Camp Player of the Year, the SEC Coaches Offensive Player of the Year and an AFCA, Sporting News Player of the Year, Walter Camp and Rivals first-team All-American, plus more). Summary: The journalists, sportscasters, and sportswriters gave the wrong player the trophy. Each region has 145 media votes, for a total of 870 votes. They created or followed a storyline and avoided talking about Darren (while hurt) during mid-season so Tebow could build steam. In 1997, Charles Woodson only won the Walter Camp Award and beat out Peyton Manning who won both the OBrien and Maxwell awards. Matt Leinart did the same thing again to Jason White in 2004. Anyone with a clear conscience should be ashamed to cheat Darren McFadden out of a well deserve award. Three years of performance to Tebow’s one. Darren should have won it in 2006 but again a storyline for Troy wouldn’t die. The Heisman is a little weaker without Darren McFadden. Tebow has no memorable moment. He has the cumulative effort of becoming the first college quarterback to throw for 20 or more touchdowns and rush for at least 20 TDs (12 of which were less than 3 yards and a few more 5 or less). But as far as a single game of brilliance against a top-level opponent? There is nothing. There is no moment of brilliance, no transcendent game or highlight against a power team to remember. And yet all the Heisman talk is Tebow, Tebow, Tebow. McFadden directed the win over LSU which Tebow lost to. Tebow is a good player but he did not out perform Darren. Every past winner (except Danny Waffle) that I could find that pronounced his vote it went to McFadden.

Posted by: allentxhog | Dec 11, 2007 8:09:47 PM

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