226 Ballots: Ingram lead holds, but Suh climbing on Gerhart

Now at 226 ballots - 24.4% of all Trophy ballots - Mark Ingram's lead is holding at 42.4%. Toby Gerhart remains narrowly behind him, but his lead over Ndamukong Suh has shrunk from 3.1% to 1.6%.

Colt McCoy's total dropped ever-so-slightly. We're now confident that McCoy is going to remain in fourth place. Tim Tebow remains in fifth.

It is, of course, fairly stunning that 2008's second-place and third-place finishers will finish fourth and fifth in 2009. Most observers expected a huge Trophy battle royale between the two of them (along with 2008 winner Sam Bradford).

The regional breakdown continues to show substantial regional differences - though with Ingram leading the pack in three of the seven regions (plus leading our list of voters whose region we don't know, mostly national broadcasters.)

nameFanFormersWestSWMidWSouthMid-AtlNEUnknown
M Ingram1623585059353528
T Gerhart0951485653272018
N Suh310261085747172016
C McCoy02023572932212012
T Tebow04664271385

Kari Chisholm | December 9, 2009 | Comment on This Post (143 so far)
Permalink: 226 Ballots: Ingram lead holds, but Suh climbing on Gerhart

Comments

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Would you say you're still "confident in making the relatively limited (and obvious) statement that (Suh will not) be the winner of the Trophy"?

Posted by: Babyspeak | Dec 9, 2009 10:15:38 PM

statistical dead heat . . . we'll have to wait until Saturday. GBR

Posted by: Phil | Dec 9, 2009 10:15:44 PM

do you still rule suh out of the running?

Posted by: strong | Dec 9, 2009 10:15:55 PM

good work, now I can go to sleep finally! My only beef is that I don't want to see this go to the 3rd sophomore in a row... no sophomore won before Tebow and now it might be 3 in a row... come on! Let Ingram prove his stuff next year. I feel McCoy Gerhart and Suh are splitting west of the Mississippi leaving Ingram to clean up those southeast and eastern regions.

Posted by: Allan | Dec 9, 2009 10:17:57 PM

I would give my left kidney to win this.

Posted by: J Congdon | Dec 9, 2009 10:23:21 PM

I also think that you should win based on more emphasis on 1st place votes instead of raking up a bunch of 2nd best votes. maybe a 5-3-1 instead of a 3-2-1. this would make a first place vote 5 times better than a 3rd and 2.5 times better than a 2nd. This would make one 1st place vote worth two 2nd place and one 3rd place vote. It seems like it would take out the 2nd and 3rd place emphasis in determining the winner.

Posted by: Allan | Dec 9, 2009 10:25:23 PM

Any ideas on how many ballots are going to come from each region? So far, it looks like each candidate is split by region-- so it would be interesting to see which regions the rest of the ballots will be coming in from.

Posted by: Marcus | Dec 9, 2009 10:25:34 PM

I'm a Husker fan, so I may be a little biased. But i appreciate the fact that Suh is getting recognition and voters are looking at his stats and voting for him. It's hard to compare qb hurries, passes broken up and yards for loss, compared to the easy stats of yards gained and touchdowns. Keep catching them in the StiffArmTrophy and finish strong. Suh for H...man !!!!!

Posted by: mike t | Dec 9, 2009 10:26:07 PM

it's obvious that the West and South-West regions are the most bias.

Posted by: brad | Dec 9, 2009 10:26:10 PM

PS - Thanks for all the hard work!

Posted by: Babyspeak | Dec 9, 2009 10:26:58 PM

appreciate the insight!

Posted by: SuhShouldWin | Dec 9, 2009 10:31:05 PM

The unfortunate thing about Suh is that his stats do not tell the whole story. What made his stats so incredible was the fact he achieved those stats after having been double and triple teamed on nearly every snap this season. Most people have not seen him play other than B12 country so they are not aware of that. Watching him do what he does under that condition is what made watching him such a joy the past two years. I am really going to miss him next year.

Posted by: Brad | Dec 9, 2009 10:34:19 PM

ALLEN, I WISH THAT WERE THE CASE. IT WAS REPORTED THAT 3 VOTERS IN JACKSON, MS,1 VOTER IN KNOXVILLE,TN AND 1 VOTER IN ATHENS GA. LEFT INGRAM OFF THERE BALLOTS. AND A STUPID SHITHEAD REPORTER AT THE BIRMINGHAM NEWS VOTED MCCLAIN 1 INGRAM 2. HE SAID HE WANTED TO MAKE A STATEMENT EVENTHOUGH HE KNEW MCLAIN WOULD PROBABLY ONLY GET 1 VOTE. IT,S VOTERS LIKE THAT THAT HURT THE HEISMAN LEGACY. OTHER SEC SCHOOLS DON'T WANT BAMA TO GET ANYMORE OF AN ADVANTAGE THEN THEY ALREADY HAVE. LAST 3 YEARS IN THE TOP TWO IN RECRUITING. IT'S BULL TO LEAVE A PERSON OFF COMPLETELY WHEN HE IS ATLEAST THE 3RD BEST CANDIDATE,JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE FROM A RIVAL SCHOOL.

Posted by: KC CRAWFORD | Dec 9, 2009 10:35:14 PM

The unfortunate thing about Suh is that his stats do not tell the whole story. What made his stats so incredible was the fact he achieved those stats after having been double and triple teamed on nearly every snap this season. Most people have not seen him play other than B12 country so they are not aware of that. Watching him do what he does under that condition is what made watching him such a joy the past two years. I am really going to miss him next year.

Posted by: Brad | Dec 9, 2009 10:35:37 PM

new northeast votes will be the key to the next projection!

also i think suh will not remain 4th in mid atl, thus skewing another region

still a 4 man race! remember colt has early and ashamed votes!

Posted by: jason | Dec 9, 2009 10:36:02 PM

Ingram is simply not a Heisman-quality running back.

He's not even the best player on his own team. Nick Saban knows it. We all know it. Ingram is good but not great.

Gerhart is a standout back. He's Heisman worthy. Exceptional. He's not the best running back ever but very good.

The problem I have is that we have quite possibly the greatest DT to ever play the game -- possibly the greatest defensive player to ever play the game -- and he is going to lose to a B quality running back (Ingram) or a B+ quality running back (Gerhart).

Posted by: Christopher | Dec 9, 2009 10:38:52 PM

i dont think you can say the southwest and west are more biased. there are just more voters who have publicized their votes from those regions so far. im curious to know what percentage of voters from each region have released their votes while ths website has been collecting them. seems to me that voteers from the south and midatl and ne are more reluctant to release their votes this year than voters from other regions. i wonder if this is a pattern that has occured over the years or if this is new? also i think its interesting to see that suh has collected the most points from former winners so far, and am interested to see if that trend continues. speaking of former winners i wonder if OJ got to vote from prison this year?

Posted by: UNBIASED | Dec 9, 2009 10:39:24 PM

Kari when do you think Stiff Arm will be determining the winner?

Posted by: David L | Dec 9, 2009 10:39:39 PM

Brad,
it is going to suck not having suh around next year but we got krick yet, and remember that pelini coached up glenn dorsey while he was down in lsu when he the best DT in FBS that year. so ithink the coaching track record will give us great players to watch for years to come

Posted by: UNBIASED | Dec 9, 2009 10:42:12 PM

CHRISTOPHER, YOUR SO CALLED B QUALITY BACK WAS VOTED SEC OFFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR IN THE SEC, ONE OF THE STRONGEST IF NOT THE STRONGEST CONF. IN FOOTBALL. TO ME YOUR THINKING IS WHATS WRONG WITH VOTERS AS WELL. YOU HAVE YOUR MAN FROM YOUR TEAM AND THATS WHO YOU WANT TO WIN. NOT THE BEST PLAYER WHO CARRIED HIS TEAM TO A NO LOSE SEASON

Posted by: KC CRAWFORD | Dec 9, 2009 10:47:47 PM

UNBIASED, GLAD TO KNOW YOU THINK PELINI WILL COACH HIS KIDS UP. THAT IS HOW NICK SABAN TEACHES HIS ASST. YOUR WELCOME FOR HIM GETTING HIS DEFENSIVE KNOWLEGDE FROM THE BEST. ROLL TIDE

Posted by: KC CRAWFORD | Dec 9, 2009 10:52:31 PM

Looks like I picked a bad weekend to stop sniffing glue

Posted by: Paul Wall | Dec 9, 2009 10:55:27 PM

KC Crawford,

PLEASE PRESS YOUR CAPS LOCK KEY, IT IS STUCK ON.

So what you are saying is, if Ingram played on another team or Bama had lost in a good performance by Ingram, that his Heisman worthiness would go down?

The Heisman is not a team trophy last I checked.

My other issue with Ingram is that in Bama's closest games, he had his worst games. Suh's best games came in Nebraska losses.

Of course, I personally fault Suh for Nebraska's pathetic offense this year and that is why I didn't vote him #1... as you said, Ingram is the best player who carried his team to a no lose season, and Suh is the best player, but his team has 4 losses.

Posted by: Hus | Dec 9, 2009 11:02:54 PM

If Gerhart is so much better than Ingram, why does he have a lower yards per carry average than Ingram. Ingram simply didn't get the same amount of carries as Gerhart, and would have as many or more total yards if the carries were more similar. And c'mon, SEC defenses versus Pac-10 defenses, no contest.

Posted by: NM Johnson | Dec 9, 2009 11:03:15 PM

pelini got nothing from saban. saban got his natinal championship because he was smart enough to hire pelini in the first place. do some research and learn more about where pelini came from before you spout off nonsense.

Posted by: UNBIASED | Dec 9, 2009 11:07:21 PM

actually check that saban was gone from lsu before pelini even got there. miles was the coach.

Posted by: UNBIASED | Dec 9, 2009 11:10:35 PM

your idiocy is wearing off on me. wheres that glue at paul wall

Posted by: UNBIASED | Dec 9, 2009 11:11:05 PM

It became obvious to me in 1997 that the Heisman Trophy was nothing but a popularity contest and I have not watched it since Manning was mugged by the voters. With that said, your site is fascinating!

Posted by: Dale | Dec 9, 2009 11:11:08 PM

Thanks Christopher for today's edition of the "Morons Perspective"

Posted by: Dale | Dec 9, 2009 11:15:51 PM

UNBIASED,

Your name is clearly a lie, stop embarrassing yourself.

Nick Saban has had many great assistants in his career. You're fooling yourself if you actually believe Pelini didn't learn anything from Saban. Pelini himself along with Muschamp will tell you they owe where they are due to Saban.

End of discussion.

Posted by: Tider27 | Dec 9, 2009 11:21:30 PM

christopher u stupid ignorant slut - go see ingram on www.secdigitalnetework.com

all games esp lsu 2nd half , and gators


ingram is phenomenal great vision tackle breaking flying block of concrete - emmit smith style - low center of gravity but faster than smith
record breaking yards after contact more than half


gerhart - 3 star back - gimmick back like mt cody fridge ron dayne who got exposed in nfl

ingram - 3 star back but worked out with outstanding training program that a lot of the saints work out with wyatt and sonic boom and has gone from solid to superstar

Posted by: bear | Dec 9, 2009 11:22:17 PM

STIFF YOU ARE MISSING MY ESPN POST WITH NORRIE AND 2 OTHERS

Posted by: bear | Dec 9, 2009 11:24:11 PM

TIDER 27 pelini was never on sabans staff. he was hired by nebraska in 2003 as a DC didnt get the head coach job after that year left went to oklahoma for a year then joined les miles at LSU so you tell me where he learned anything from Saban?

Posted by: UNBIASED | Dec 9, 2009 11:25:43 PM

"UNBIASED, GLAD TO KNOW YOU THINK PELINI WILL COACH HIS KIDS UP. THAT IS HOW NICK SABAN TEACHES HIS ASST. YOUR WELCOME FOR HIM GETTING HIS DEFENSIVE KNOWLEGDE FROM THE BEST. ROLL TIDE"

Wherever Pelini's been he's produced outstanding defenses since he's been in the college game. Back in his first stint at Nebraska in '03 he had a top 10 team that improved from a team that was something like 40-50th ranked the previous year. Add to the fact that last year they improved from one of the worst to second best in the Big XII (a feat considering how good the Big XII offenses were last year) and then they are a top 10 team this year. Also I'd like to point out the fact that LSU's defenses have gone down in ranking for the past couple of years now that Pelini's at Nebraska.

Posted by: Zack | Dec 9, 2009 11:27:14 PM

What years did Pelini coach for Saban?

lol...

Posted by: dallas_TheFan | Dec 9, 2009 11:30:17 PM

Which years did Pelini coach for Saban?

LOL....

Posted by: dallas_TheFan | Dec 9, 2009 11:31:41 PM

I'm pretty sure that Pelini was the DC for Nebraska when Saban was at LSU and Will Muschamp was his his DC. Philosophically, Pelini and Saban have similar dispositions to what a defense should do: defend the middle of the field, pressure the quarterback, etc. Schematically, they are not identical. Pelini has always been a 4-3 base guy while Saban has been 3-4/multiple guy.

I don't get the idea that Ingram is "just a guy" and not an "exceptional back." It really just makes no sense, he's probably the tailback in college who's style projects the best for the pros. He's built and has a low center of gravity, he has great footwork and acceleration, and he's great at avoid "clean contact" to break tackles for more yardage. Ingram also has underrated hands and ability as a receiver. He's far more complete than Gerhart and his game projects better to the next level. Gerhart ain't going to run over guys like Ray Lewis, Ingram has the ability to make sure Lewis ain't getting a clean shot on him. That is why it's rare for fatbacks to succeed in the NFL. Gerhart = Ron Dayne 2.0.

Posted by: rgw | Dec 9, 2009 11:32:31 PM

I think Ingram is very deserving of the Stiffarm, team aside. As a matter of fact, the very team that some people think is making a vote lean his way is ACTUALLY some of the reason his stats are what they are. Gerhart had 311 carries, while his teamates combined had an additional 186 carries. Ingram, on the other hand, had 249 carries while his teamates including Upchurch and Richardson, who average 6.3 and 5.1 YPC (Ingram 6.2YPC), had an ADDITIONAL 301 carries. So for the sake of being foolish and betting on Ingrams history, lets make both Ingram and Gerharts teammates have 186 carries and give the 115 extra Ingram lost to other players, back into his stats at lets say, 5.8 YPC, which is lower than his actual average. That gives him 667 yards more which hypothetically would bring his total to 2,209 yds.If you get and invest $100, and turn it into $150, and i get $50, but turn it into $100.....who is better at investing here....the guy who brings more money to the table or the one that got more with what he had? Now, a long and drawn out perfect world scenerio aside, the fact still remains. He played as a sophomore, against one of the toughest schedules in the nation, for 1542 yards and had teamates make 301 carries beyond his own. Hats off to him, he is a workhorse, and injury free will no doubt age like a fine wine under Sabans guidance. He gets my #1 vote.And if he continues, I hope he wins it next year too. And on a side note, Trent Richardson is better, faster, and has more potential than Ingram. We will see him on ESPN in the years to come, and dare i say, he will also get his shot at the Stiffarm.

Posted by: C TANK | Dec 9, 2009 11:37:46 PM

Not l"Sue" any name but "Sue" ...Tom,Bill, Jack or MAEK

Posted by: Bullred | Dec 9, 2009 11:38:07 PM

PELINI HAS REALLY IMPROVED THAT WHOLE TEAM HAS'NT HE? HOW MANY GAMES HAS HE AVERAGED LOSING A YEAR ? ABOUT 5 OR IS IT 6. THAT'S A COACH TO BE PROUD OF!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: KC CRAWFORD | Dec 9, 2009 11:40:40 PM

There is a huge list of people who voted for Suh and what place they voted for him on huskerpedia and they are all confirmed to be real voters.

http://64.131.67.10/vbbs/showthread.php?s=1a846e965b9a86e24b7449709812bd5c&t=77202

Posted by: kyle | Dec 9, 2009 11:44:14 PM

uh..Ingram was a 4 star back with an NFL pedigree, far from being a third star. Three stars is average and Ingram has never been average.

Posted by: phylomatic | Dec 9, 2009 11:47:43 PM

I'm sorry to say it, but Suh shouldn't even be in this discussion. The only reason he is in the discussion is because of Texas' average offensive line. He took advantage of a team that has struggled to run the ball all year. When you don't have to worry about the run it makes his job a lot easier. Don't get me wrong he is a great defensive tackle. Prolly the best I've seen, and has amazing stats. But this is an Offensive award. If we are going to give it to defensive players then you have to look at Rolando Mclain, or Eric Berry. I mean they have as big an impact on a game as Suh does. And the guy that said Ingram was a B running back is an idiot. You obviously haven't seen the guy play this year. Just go look at his yards after contact. They speak for themself. Gerhart is overrated also. He did a good job at racking up yards on average Pac 10 defenses. THe best defense he faced all year was Arizona St. with a rush defense ranked 18th. Ingram is a more complete back and consistently put up good numbers against good teams. Just look at the biggest games he played in. Saban didn't leave him in late in the 4th quarter against terrible teams. So Ingram earned every single yard. If he had played against Notre Dame's defense he might have put up 300 yards. But it's going to be a close race and every candidate is deserving. Except Tebow, his numbers aren't that impressive, he's just a great leader that refuses to lose and the media loves him. If you live in the Southeast then you know what I'm talking about. lol

Posted by: Garrett | Dec 9, 2009 11:49:08 PM

Um... unbiased... obviously you don't really know what your talking about either... Pelini was hired in 2005 by LSU and won a national title under Les Miles not under Nick Saban... thus showing your ignorance on the topic... so do you homework before you come out spouting stuff that you have no clue on...

Posted by: the real unbiased | Dec 9, 2009 11:50:03 PM

Do they teach math in alabama? doesnt seem like KC knows how to find an average. just so you know how to you would add all the loses together then divide them by the number of years. try using your fingers to count that usually helps with the special needs students i teach at school.

Posted by: UNBIASED | Dec 9, 2009 11:50:49 PM

Hey KC,

Don't you wish Bama could line up right now against Stanford and Gerhart and shut these PAC-10 punks up for good. It probably would not keep them quiet for long because they really do think the PAC-10 is a better conference. These guys think they are so smart but they leave out key stats like all purpose yardage. It is all smoke and mirrors with these guys. Ingram can catch the football as well. He has a lot more receiving yards than Gerhart putting his total yards right there with G-man. It is also a fact that Gerhart has almost 60 more rushes than Ingram, this is equal to about 2 more games. I think this probably makes him a more complete back as well. Also yards after contact, Ingram has 1,009 yards after contact. This stat is very easy to find on Ingram by the way. I cannot find this stat on Gerhart, it must not be that good or it would be published. Hey, I am not bashing Gerhart at all, he is an outstanding running back that has a great future ahead of him. I am pointing these things out because some of you are making this personal. It is obvious by reading some of these posts that many of you never played football. If Ingram and Gerhart are B and B+ running backs, what does that make you? Do any of you make a living critiquing college football players, I doubt it. I will say this, the SEC has some very good running offenses and Bama has not allowed a 100 yard rusher in nearly 2 whole seasons. I guarantee that Gerhart has not faced 1 defense in the PAC-10 that can say that. I hear a lot of jealousy coming from the PAC-10 supporters. Also P.S., I hear you all talking about the North East voters. Good Luck with that, Ingram is from Flint Michigan. While not necessarily the NE but much closer than California. Plus these NE guys probably read a lot of this hatred that you guys are spitting at Ingram, and you all are supposed to be the smart ones. I will end by saying this. If you want to see the difference in the 2 conferences, just buy a ticket to the National Championship Game. At least you all do not have far to travel.

Posted by: Sam | Dec 9, 2009 11:51:46 PM

the real unbiased,
i already corrected myself on that one.

Posted by: UNBIASED | Dec 9, 2009 11:52:11 PM

um... unbiased... obviously you have no clue what you are talking about... Pelini was hired in 2005... Saban's first year as coach of the dolphins... thus Saban and pelini got nothing from each other... Pelini won a national title as a d-coordinator under Les Miles... so... before you going spouting off your mouth like you know something check your facts....

Posted by: the real unbiased | Dec 9, 2009 11:54:26 PM

I think this may be the year that the methodology here shows a weakness, one that I don't really think there is a solution to.

The south is going to be impossible to predict for Ingram because the standard deviation will be through the roof. There is a long time hatred for The University of Alabama not to mention a new hatred for Nick Saban. There is a lot of bias going against Ingram but there is also some on the opposite extreme as well. I just don't think you can get an accurate read on Ingram in the south and I'm afraid its going to cost him in the end, especially seeing the embarrassing bias towards Suh in the Southwest.

Posted by: phylomatic | Dec 9, 2009 11:56:58 PM

SAM, I WOULD LOVE TO LINE UP AGAINST STANFORDS OFFENSE AND NEBRASKAS DEFFENSE AND SHUT BOTH OF THERE BIASED, LACK OF FOOTBALL KNOWLEDGE, OBVIOUSLY INBREED MOUTHS UP. THESE PEOPLE ARE FOOLS IF THE REALLY BELIEVE INGRAM IS NOT THE MOST DESERVING PLAYER IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL.

Posted by: KC CRAWFORD | Dec 10, 2009 12:02:25 AM

UNBIASED, I WOULD HATE TO KNOW YOU TAUGHT MY KIDS SEEING HOW YOU CAN'T TYPE. YOU SHOULD USE CAPITAL LETTERS AFTER PERIODS AND I IS NEVER i. you dumb cornhusker.BY THE WAY AFTER YOU HUSK THAT CORN WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THE COB? I THINK WE ALL KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT.

Posted by: KC CRAWFORD | Dec 10, 2009 12:07:12 AM

"especially seeing the embarrassing bias towards Suh in the Southwest."

HAHA Your just jealous that your boy Ingram isnt getting as much love from the other voters in his home region. The fact of the matter is the voters in the SW division probably had the chance to see Suh play all year long and took notice of how he dominated every offensive line he faced. Its a no brainer out there. They seem to evenly think that McCoy and Ingram were the second best players in college football this year behind Suh. You should expect the candidates to carry their regions by large margins. quit whining about your percieved lack of respect from your home region.

Posted by: PA4BIGRED | Dec 10, 2009 12:08:48 AM

Inbred? i think you have us confused with your southern ass. Alabama is filled with backwards fools. Alabama would still be playing with all white teams if they could. 40 years ago Alabama probably wouldnt of even let Ingram carry the water jug let alone a football!

Posted by: PA4BIGRED | Dec 10, 2009 12:11:22 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyFjcylzuIU

suh is the champ!!

Posted by: pvfresno@yahoo.com | Dec 10, 2009 12:15:51 AM

I TAKE THAT CORN AND STICK IT UP YOUR MOMS TWAT

Posted by: UNBIASED | Dec 10, 2009 12:17:40 AM

UNBIASED, HAVING HEARD ABOUT YOU CORNHUSKER BOYS I DON'T THINK YOU WOULD KNOW WHAT A TWAT LOOKS LIKE. SO JUST KEEP USEING IT ON YOUR BROTHER AND YOU BOTH WILL BE HAPPY.

Posted by: KC CRAWFORD | Dec 10, 2009 12:23:48 AM

UNBIASED, ALSO PLEASE USE PERIODS WHEN YOU FINISH A SENTENCE. DAMN HAVE YOU NOT LEARNED ANYTHING BOY.

Posted by: KC CRAWFORD | Dec 10, 2009 12:28:46 AM

http://www.wsfa.com/Global/story.asp?S=4992
HAVE YOU BEEN PLAYING WITH PONIES LATELY KC?

Posted by: UNBIASED | Dec 10, 2009 12:34:20 AM

Q. Where was OJ headed in the white Bronco
A. To Tuscaloosa...he knew the police would never look for a Heisman Trophy winner there

Posted by: UNBIASED | Dec 10, 2009 12:41:08 AM

SABAN DID NOT HIRE BO PELINI LESS DID - MUSCHAMP WAS SABANS DC

Posted by: bear | Dec 10, 2009 12:44:23 AM

The West is showing huge bias. Gerhart has 2x the votes of any other candidate. Same goes for the SW and 2x Suh votes. I love West Coast people are getting all tempered about bias on the Eastern side of the US when the regional breakdown clearly shows the opposite. Btw, I live on the west coast.

Posted by: wd | Dec 10, 2009 12:46:47 AM

UNBIASED, GO ON AND GO TO BED AND WHEN YOU WAKE UP IN THE MORNING SUH WILL STILL BE IN THIRD PLACE. YOU SHOULD BE PROUD OF THAT BECAUSE HE SHOULD NOT EVEN BE UP FOR THE HEISMAN. ROLL TIDE ROLL. S.E.C. CHAMPS AND SOON TO BE 13 TIMES NATIONAL CHAMPIONS.

Posted by: KC CRAWFORD | Dec 10, 2009 12:47:30 AM

UNBIASED, GLAD TO SEE YOU COULD SPELL TUSCALOOSA, BUT YOU STILL ARE NOT USING THOSE PERIODS. DON'T MAKE ME TELL YOU AGAIN YOUNG MAN.

Posted by: KC CRAWFORD | Dec 10, 2009 12:50:54 AM

I am axious to see if McCoy finishes in 4th as projected. I believe the majority of voters are not going to go public and say they are an idiot and voted early for McCoy.

Posted by: Dave | Dec 10, 2009 12:58:44 AM

Bo Pelini was not Saban's DC, check your facts. He was the hats DC.

Posted by: Not Bo | Dec 10, 2009 1:02:16 AM

AS A BAMA FAN I LIKED THE IDEA OF NEVER HAVING A HEISMAN ...PRESSURE TO PLAY THE CANDIDATE INSTEAD OF RESTING IN A BLOW OUT ... OR PRESSURE TO USE THE RB WHEN PASSING GAME NEEDS WORK OR VISA VERSA... MY HOPE WAS THAT THE QBS WOULD STEP UP AND WIN IT ...BUT THEY DID NOT ...SO NOW THAT INGRAM OBVIOUSLY DESERVES I WANT HIM TO WIN IT B/C IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO ... AND IF HE DOESN'T I DON'T BLAME THE WEST COASTERS THEY JUST DK THEY SUCK AND THEIR FBALL IS VASTLY INFERIOR... I BLAME THE RACIST RIVALS OF THE SEC CITIES WHO LEFT HIM OFF THE BALLOT BUT THE GOOD PART IS INGRAM IS BETTER CHRISTIAN THAN TEBOW AND THBE WRATH OF THE ALMIGHTY WILL BE ON THE HEADS OF THESE CORRUPT VERMIN OF KNOXVILE GAYSVILLE JACKSON FAYEYTTEVILE NEW ORLEANS MONTGOMERY/SOMEWHAT ATHENS

Posted by: bear | Dec 10, 2009 1:04:23 AM

WRONG ON EARLY VOTING - ESPN REPORTED THAT THE HEISMAN DAC ....REPORTED 6% EARLY VOTING

Posted by: bear | Dec 10, 2009 1:06:27 AM

BRADFORD AVG 60 POINTS VS FL D, MCCOY VS NEB D AND OK D,GERHART VS WAKE OREG ST D,92 MIAMI O VS BAMA D, MIAMI O IN 86 VS TENN D, TEXAS TECH O OF 05 VS BAMA D, HOW DID THESE SO CALLED HIGH POWERED OFFENSES COME OUT... MALLET VS BAMA D,GREAT HITTING VS GREAT PITCHING,FLA 99 0 VS 99 BAMA D ... FL SPREAD 05 VS BAMA D...

Posted by: bear | Dec 10, 2009 1:12:41 AM

You're both idiots. No Pelini ever coached for Nick Saban. Bo was hired by Les Miles.

Posted by: topgun | Dec 10, 2009 1:50:24 AM

Here's some interesting stats for Suh comparing the entire front lines of the 3 top teams.

Bama Season Totals:

98 tkl - 23.5 tfl - 9.5 sac - 20 qbh - 5 pbu - 0 int - 1 ff - 3 blk

Texas Season Totals:

112 tkl - 33 tfl - 14 sac - 48 qbh - 5 pbu - 0 int - 1 ff - 0 bkl

Florida Season Totals:

116 tkl - 25.5 tfl - 15.5 sac - 10 qbh - 7 pbu - 0 int - 2 ff - 0 blk

Suh's Season Totals:

82 tkl - 23 tfl - 12 sac - 24 qbh - 10 pbu - 1 int - 1 ff - 3 blk

Posted by: Zack | Dec 10, 2009 2:30:01 AM

I get sick and tired of the argument that the best player has to come from the best teams. The best teams are not the best teams because of that player. Can you honsetly say that Alabama would be less of a team with out him, no, they have an over all great team which makes good players appear better because they are surrounded by better players. The true test is when you have average teams and individual performances are the main reason the team has success (ie: Stanford and Nebraska) KC could you explain how a defensive player has any effect on how the offense performs. If anything great defense makes an offense better, with turn overs, field position, and more opportunities to score. Nebraska's defense did that and they were still unperductive.

Posted by: Stanley Steele | Dec 10, 2009 3:17:12 AM

We can continue to debate until the cows come home. It is for the most part a bias vote, you have some voters voting before the season is over. Others asking others how they should vote. What conference is the player from, who did they play. A majority of the voters have no way of truely knowing enough about each and every player to make a true and informed choice, now I would say with the amount of additional coverage college sports have gained over the years the % would have to go up a little but none the less exposure is the key. Not so much play on the field.

Posted by: Stanley Steele | Dec 10, 2009 3:26:28 AM

I think all top 3 are very good. I have no problems with sophomores winning anymore due to the fact that a lot of them do not stay for Senior year. These days a Soph is a Jr in football years which was not the case many years ago. This is Ingram's only year to have a chance next year he will split even more playing time with Trent Richardson & others. If Richardson was not there Ingram would have obviously had more yards. What MI did against the #1 team was more impressive than what I saw out of the others - The other two are also incredible but I think MI played against tougher competition just my biased opinion

Posted by: another | Dec 10, 2009 4:36:01 AM

There are no eye-popping players this year that make you say WOW! Hence, the close contest between 3 players who could all very easily win. If I had a vote, it would be Ingram, Gerhart, then McCoy. Hard to overlook the performance Ingram put on against the #1 D in the country (UF) and 3 or 4 more top ranked Ds in the SEC and it helps that Alabama is 13-0.

Posted by: NoClearCut | Dec 10, 2009 4:43:46 AM

Uh, Saban never hired Pelini. You're confusing Saban with Les Miles.

Posted by: Husker Mik | Dec 10, 2009 4:48:05 AM

O.K. the thing is people haven't heard of Suh. It took a good game from him on national.T.V. Mark Ingram got pulled out of games when they played a weaker team. I find the trophy has lost the real meaning of what it used to stand for... When players are left in to pad stats it means nothing... I find that when a player is more important to the team as a whole that is the real winner. Mark ran all over the #1 Defense in the country. Shu had more of a one time kinda game. He may have had a great season , but the thing is he didn't do it against the SEC week in and week out.

Thanks for letting me express my the real way football should me played. If Ingram or Gerhart doesn't win than the Heisman has lost it's cool.

Posted by: Joe Johnson | Dec 10, 2009 4:48:21 AM

This is the trophy that goes to the best player in college football that year, not the best player on an undefeated team or the best player in a glamour position. There is only one player this year that has been able to place his mark on evverygame while lining up 6 inches from 300 pound lineman on every play, where would the QB and RB be if thay did not have some sort of a line that blocked for them. Everybody in this years race is a very good candidate, but instead of looking at the stats and comparing them, let us look at the whole picture and the impact that each one had on the game from there position. In my mind there is only one player that was so dominant that the players around him only got better and if he would have played in the SEC or the Pac-10 he would have dominated both of those leagues as well.

Here's my votes
1. Suh
2. Gerhart
3. Ingram
4. McCoy
5. Spiller

Posted by: Gene | Dec 10, 2009 4:59:01 AM

Look the thing is that people need to stop doing all the drugs you guys have out in the midwest... Shu has the worst reason for the trophy.

Posted by: Joe Johnson | Dec 10, 2009 5:08:26 AM

uh guys, Bo Pelini never coached for Saban....he coached under Les Miles

Posted by: Greg | Dec 10, 2009 5:16:53 AM

Saban got his NC because of Pelini? Uhhh, who is playing in the NC game again? Is it Nebraska or Alabama? How many games did Nebraska lose again with the most dominant player in college football?

Posted by: Rick | Dec 10, 2009 5:29:14 AM

I would like to have some of whatever christopher is smoking! Ingram is not a h***man winning running back?! The only diff between his and Gerharts stats is Ingram wasn't ever in the game when we had big leads on the cupcakes. You can't say ingram isn't h***man worthy just because his stats weren't padded. And ingram still had as many all purpose yards as Gerhart with aprox. 60 less touches, ouch...

Posted by: CDT | Dec 10, 2009 6:04:15 AM

Pelini was @ LSU from 2005-2007. He was hired by Les Miles, not Nick Saban. Get your facts straight. The track record is Bo can coach them up on defense: took 117th ranked defense from 2007 and made them a top 5 defense in two years. He also took a kid (Suh) who was severely underachieving, and two years later you know the rest of the story.

Posted by: universalmike | Dec 10, 2009 6:06:56 AM

Having seen all of the candidates play multiple times, this is how I see it:

1. Ingram-Played his best against good to great defenses (5 top 30). Stats would have been much higher if he hadn't been pulled at or before halftime against weak opponents PLUS having to share carries with another great back. Can get the tough yard inside or carry it to the house. Catches the ball very well. Unknown stat: had 24 first down carries on 3rd down.

2. Suh-One of the best DL in years. Dominates while being constantly double teamed. Can stop the run or get to the QB equally well. Big drawback is the lack of top notch offenses he faced this year. Not his fault, would probably do as well but the fact is he did not face superior competition.

3. Gerhart-A bruiser who is almost impossible to tackle. Was his teams offensive leader, and had the stats to prove it. Big drawback again (not his fault) is the lack of superior defenses he faced (1 top 20).

4. Tebow-Did not have the stats as he had last year, but he performed consistently well against good defenses, not padding his stats against weak opponents. Most people can't stand him, but the guy is one of the best ever to play college ball.

5. McCoy-Don't get me wrong-I like the guy and what he has done over his career. But, this is a YEARLY award and this year Colt has done fantastic against very weak defenses, and mediocre to poor against what good defenses he faced. In fact, he only faced 3 good/great defenses all year and did not do well in any of them.

Take it for what you want, but great stats against weak competition should not bring home this trophy. No, it's not playing for the best team, but how you perform against good teams. In this area, Ingram shines above all the rest.

Posted by: BillC | Dec 10, 2009 6:10:01 AM

Maybe you could all do some research and realize that Pelini wasn't on Saban's staff at LSU. He was on Les Miles' staff when they won the title. Not that it makes any difference in the Heisman race, but just thought I'd clear up that little argument...

Posted by: PJ | Dec 10, 2009 6:10:46 AM

If Hershal Walker and Berry Sanders were on the same ballot as Suh they would be B- and B+ running backs I guess...

Posted by: CDT | Dec 10, 2009 6:11:49 AM

SUUUUUHHHHH!!!!

Posted by: CJV | Dec 10, 2009 6:13:50 AM

It is hilarious to me how so many people are saying that Ingram should not win the heisman because of the Auburn game. What people don't realize is that he was hurt in the 2nd quarter but stayed in the game until the end. Ingram should win the heisman hands down!!!

Posted by: Kyle | Dec 10, 2009 6:13:52 AM

I think a more correct assumption would be that Les Miles got his NC because of Saban. Without Sabans players that he recruited Miles would not have won. If you don't believe that take a look at LSU the last couple years since Saban's guys are gone.

Posted by: CDT | Dec 10, 2009 6:19:20 AM

Hey Garrett,

Your Bama is showing. You may want to tuck that away.

Posted by: Pat N | Dec 10, 2009 6:30:39 AM

I've seen it all now. Some retard just compared Mark Ingram and Gerhart to Hershel Walker and Barry Sanders, two of the greatest running backs of all time. Get a grip man. Another guy said that Ingram outperformed Suh in big games (he must have missed the Oklahoma, Virginia Tech, and Texas games) I suppose I shouldnt be surprised, he probably lives in the deep south and can't afford cable. Several Alabama fans are attributing Pelini's defensive success to Saban, further showing their complete and total lack of football knowledge. Another guy said that this is an offensive award, however it doesn't say that anywhere on the Heisman website. IDK, I'm really starting question our public school system.....

Posted by: duhhhhhhh | Dec 10, 2009 6:37:20 AM

"SAM, I WOULD LOVE TO LINE UP AGAINST STANFORDS OFFENSE AND NEBRASKAS DEFFENSE AND SHUT BOTH OF THERE BIASED, LACK OF FOOTBALL KNOWLEDGE, OBVIOUSLY INBREED MOUTHS UP. THESE PEOPLE ARE FOOLS IF THE REALLY BELIEVE INGRAM IS NOT THE MOST DESERVING PLAYER IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL."

Alabamans talking about "inbreds" in Nebraska and California?

That's almost as funny as your thinking that Pelini coached with Saban.

Ingram is a very good back on a very good team. Does he even average 120 yds a game? Heck, 1800 yds should be the QUALIFIER for an RB to win the Heisman.

That=all.

Posted by: Jeff | Dec 10, 2009 6:47:42 AM

When talking about Ingram and Gerhart, and the defenses each faced, make sure you are using the rush defense ranking, not the total defense. Gerhart faced more top 30, top 50, and top 100 rush defenses (by yds per game) than Ingram. If you use yds per rush, they each faced the same number of quality defenses by ranking. It is not a shock that SEC defense rankings jump way up in terms of total defense, because SEC offenses, by and large, don't pass the ball with the frequency or success that Pac 10 offenses do.

For those who want to use Ingram total offense numbers: What about the argument that Alabama had a complete lack of quality receivers and TEs, and thus had to use Ingram, while Stanford had WRs and TEs worth throwing to? Is it a good argument? No. But, it is as good as the "but Ingram didn't even play the second half of a couple games." They are all subjective.

Fact is, for better or worse, what is objective are the actual rushing yards, actual TDs scored, and, for Suh, things like tackles and sacks.

While I don't think there is a question that Ingram (as well as Spiller and many others) is a better pro prospect and on a better team than Gerhart, that is not how the award is supposed to be decided. For me, the one problem I have with Ingram is this: can anyone remember a Heisman winner, in their Heisman winning season, in a big game with his team's season on the line, absolutely crapping the bed like Ingram did against Auburn (16 carries for 30 yards)? A horrible Auburn rush defense that was gashed all year in the SEC. And, Ingram was on the bench in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. To me, a Heisman winner doesn't have that kind of game. He doesn't have to be great in every game, but he must be good in every game. That is why McCoy gets written off (Oklahoma and Nebraska) and Spiller (South Carolina). Same should apply to Ingram.

Lastly, as far as records: Last SEC player to win was Tebow, when Florida was 8-4 (before bowl game). Last SEC RB to win the Heisman was Bo Jackson, in a year when Auburn was 7-4 (before bowl game). So, the record argument is moot.

Posted by: Mike | Dec 10, 2009 6:49:01 AM

As has been stated earlier, ingram has a higher ypc avg than gerhart as well as roughly the same amount of total yards..

Why has no one pointed out yet that alabamas number 2 back has twice the carries, twice the yards, and three times the touchdowns as stanfords backup running backs..

Methinks the gerhart apologists are cherry picking the stats... What a shame!

Posted by: Rational | Dec 10, 2009 6:54:14 AM

Gerhart is the darling of the West and Southwest and those voters are making sure Ingram doesn't pick up any 2nd or 3rd place votes. ESPN couldn't stop talking about Gerhart's performance against Notre Dame the last two weeks of the season. Notre Dame didn't finish in the top 200, yet when it comes to the gold standard for a running back, suddenly a performance against one of the worst defenses, maybe the worst, in the country becomes relevant. Ingram is a class act on and off the field. He is the best player on a great team playing week after week agains the best defenses in the country, the SEC. Colvin Cowherd on ESPN said Alabama was "fools gold" before the Tennessee game and that So Cal would finish at the top. Want more ignorance, check out the guy on this board who said Ingram didn't produce in the close games. First politics, now sports has joined politics in declaring a biased opinion always trumps facts.

Posted by: BearCountry | Dec 10, 2009 6:55:50 AM

Wasn't Saban gone when Pelini got to LSU? I'm pretty sure Les Miles hired him.

Posted by: Levi | Dec 10, 2009 6:55:53 AM

BearCountry-

As an FYI, Auburn's rush defense finished ranked 80th. Notre Dame's 90th. Not that far off.

Posted by: Mike | Dec 10, 2009 6:58:25 AM

@another

I'm really having a hard time how, on the one hand, you can say that Ingram is most deserving of the award in your opinion and then, on the other hand, talk about how he's split playing time this year and will probably have to split it even more next year. If a player is so good as to win the award then shouldn't he become more, not less, of the team's featured back?

Posted by: Danny | Dec 10, 2009 6:59:47 AM

Mark Ingram deserves the Heisman for being the best an most productive player on the best and most productive team. And now lets remember the SEC is by far the most competitive conference in college football. Toby G. played in the Pac 10, the Pac 10, PAC 10 I'm talking about the PAC 10. Are you guys bloody crazy. Toby G. competing in the SEC would be a joke. He would maybe gain 500 yards. And he only had 10 catches all year(butterfingers). And please lets remember Alalbama ran 4 RB not just one. Alabama has three or four guys in the backfield that can start anywhere. 4 loses does not a Heisman make. Human Nature is a funny beast, people say a do things they now are dead wrong. To say Mark Ingram is only a B back is just plain stupid talk. Are you sure that nut is not in Congress? Mark Ingram will win Heisman as he deserves and Alabama will win the 2009 NCAA FOOTBALL CHAMPIONSHIP. ROLL TIDE ROLL

Posted by: Dereck | Dec 10, 2009 7:03:40 AM

Sorry the word "understanding" was supposed to be in between "time" and "how" at the beginning there.

Posted by: Danny | Dec 10, 2009 7:03:43 AM

CDT: Barry Sanders's Heisman-winning season statistics include:

2628 yds rush, 3249 yds from scrimmage, 37 rush tds, 39 total tds, average of 7.6 ypc, over 150 yds rush in every single game

If either Toby Gerhart or Mark Ingram had stats approaching these, voters would be falling all over themselves to vote for these guys. As it is, they still had very good seasons, but nothing unbelievably amazing or jaw-dropping. That, combined with Suh putting up stats by himself that are about equivalent with the entire defensive lines of good defensive teams this year, is why he has a chance.

Posted by: Mike | Dec 10, 2009 7:03:45 AM


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