164 Ballots: Ingram slips ahead of Gerhart. Suh close behind.

Well, we have a new leader in the Stiff Arm Trophy projection. Having added 42 more ballots to the mix, Mark Ingram is now narrowly leading - with 41.4%.

Toby Gerhart is close behind at 39.7%, followed by Ndamukong Suh at 37.2%. Colt McCoy seems solidly entrenched at fourth-place with 31% - and Tim Tebow is just happy to get a front-row seat in New York, with 12%.

So, what changed? A whole lot of ballots that included Ingram in the #2 spot - especially outside of the South. In terms of overall points, Ingram is now leading in the South, the Mid-Atlantic, the Northeast, and is in second place in the Midwest and the Far West. In the Southwest, he barely trails McCoy (though Suh is the huge leader there.)

Here's a regional breakdown of the points in each region. Keep in mind that the total number of ballots we've tracked varies a bit - and our projection methodology corrects for that (which is why you can't just add up the numbers.)

nameFanFormersWestSWMidWSouthMid-AtlNEUnknown
M Ingram1218433848252313
T Gerhart063737374017159
N Suh341686464310114
C McCoy0141646172317156
T Tebow04663191063

Kari Chisholm | December 8, 2009 | Comment on This Post (133 so far)
Permalink: 164 Ballots: Ingram slips ahead of Gerhart. Suh close behind.

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Ingram and Gerhart are just this year's best models. They have come before and they will come again, year after year after year.

Posted by: swanny | Dec 8, 2009 12:32:52 PM

Nice post legend. I agree 100%. Like an extra game against the #1 defense in the nation that all year only gave up 3 rushing touchdowns all year (in a rush oriented conference),until Ingram had his 3, is an advantage of some sort. Gerhart wouldnt even have 1O00 yards rushing if he played in the sec.

Posted by: bryce | Dec 8, 2009 12:40:20 PM

Let's look at the stats...

Gerhart: 311 rushes 1,736 yards 5.6 ypc 26 TDS
10 receptions 149 yards

Ingram: 249 rushes 1,542 yards 6.2 ypc 18 touchdowns
30 receptions 322 yards

Gerhart had 60+ more rushes than Ingram. Despite this, Ingram averaged 6.2 ypc, while Gerhart only averaged 5.6. Ingram also has 30 receptions, 20 more than Gerhart, basically making Ingram a wide receiver out of the backfield in the Alabama offense. Despite the touchdown discrepancy, people forget Trent Richardson, in a two headed rushing attack, vultured 6 TD's from Ingram.

Moreover, Ingram had 100+ rushing yards against 6 of the top 28 defenses statistically in the country, while Gerhart's biggest game came against a horrid Notre Dame rush defense. While I believe both Gerhart and Ingram are exceptional players, anyone that thinks Ingram isn't deserving of the Heisman is an idiot.

Posted by: Robert Robinson | Dec 8, 2009 12:53:26 PM

Toby Gerhart had 311 carries for 1736 yards that is an average of 5.6 yards per carry with 26 touchdowns, and a long carry of 61 yards. Compare that to Mark Ingram who had 249 carries for a total of 1542 yards that is an average of 6.2 yards per carry with 15 touchdowns and a long carry of 70 yards.

Also, Gerhart played against the #120 ranked defense in college Washington State, the #87 ranked defense in college Notre Dame, the #79 ranked defense Washington, the #109 ranked defense San Jose State, the #73 ranked defense in Wake Forest, the number #50 ranked Oregon State. In other words he played 4 top 50 defenses in college football. If you multiply Ingram's average by the number of times Gerhart carried the ball you would come out with 1928 yards 200 more than Gerhart.

Also, Gerhart has caught the ball 10 times for 149 yards with a long of 33 and no touchdowns. Mark Ingram has caught the ball 30 times for 322 yards with a long of 69 and 3 touchdowns.

Posted by: vampiretide | Dec 8, 2009 12:53:35 PM

Toby Gerhart had 311 carries for 1736 yards that is an average of 5.6 yards per carry with 26 touchdowns, and a long carry of 61 yards. Compare that to Mark Ingram who had 249 carries for a total of 1542 yards that is an average of 6.2 yards per carry with 15 touchdowns and a long carry of 70 yards.

Also, Gerhart played against the #120 ranked defense in college Washington State, the #87 ranked defense in college Notre Dame, the #79 ranked defense Washington, the #109 ranked defense San Jose State, the #73 ranked defense in Wake Forest, the number #50 ranked Oregon State. In other words he played 4 top 50 defenses in college football. If you multiply Ingram's average by the number of times Gerhart carried the ball you would come out with 1928 yards 200 more than Gerhart.

Also, Gerhart has caught the ball 10 times for 149 yards with a long of 33 and no touchdowns. Mark Ingram has caught the ball 30 times for 322 yards with a long of 69 and 3 touchdowns.

Posted by: vampiretide | Dec 8, 2009 12:55:44 PM

Apparently it's irrelevant to the people who refuse to look at both RB's resume that Ingram averaged more yards per carry, TOOK MANY LESS GOAL LINE CARRIES (shared with 2 other backs), played tougher competition, and sat out with the flu for a game/hip pointer for part of a game against the weaker teams on the schedule, and performed his best against the best defenses. Besides, I won't bring up any of the 3 guys worst games because sometimes you're going to have one. Look at the whole body of work.

As I said before, if Suh wins it, I'll tip my hat, cause that guy is a monster. If Gerhart wins it, it will be another disappointing "statistical" trophy presentation.

Posted by: TheT12 | Dec 8, 2009 1:10:17 PM

Ingram should definitely win the Heisman! Legend, I agree with you 100%! Ingram has play like a champion against the Eric Berry's and Brandon Spikes' of college football. My grandma could run up huge stats in the pac 10 for crying out loud! Ingram is the clear choice for the award if the right thing is done! RTR!!! Let's bring the final trophy home BAMA!!!

Posted by: Kyle | Dec 8, 2009 1:16:28 PM

What do any of you think would happen if Ingram (Alabama) played against Suh (Nebraska)? What about Gerhart (Stanford) vs Suh (Nebraska)? Do any of you think those running backs would put up any kind of note worthy numbers? Not likely! Suh shuts down offenses period. He carried Nebraska all season in every game, even the losses, to the Big 12 Championship Game where he faced the Heisman front runner McCoy and Suh...well we all know what he did.

Posted by: Gary | Dec 8, 2009 1:22:04 PM

Sam, how do you compare offensive and defensive stats? I'm not disagreeing, just curious.

It took 2 guy on the O-line of opponents to account for Suh every game, and even that was enough.

Posted by: Tim | Dec 8, 2009 1:28:14 PM

We need an UPDATE......Suh should be in the lead, but he won't be because too many "voters" don't know squat about football. All 5 are quality players, but you can find great RB and QB every year and many more in one year then a dominant, game changing D lineman. Suh is the best college football player hands down BECAUSE of the position he plays and the numbers he has this year. Too bad "voters" don't know much about football.

Posted by: JP | Dec 8, 2009 1:34:45 PM

We need an UPDATE......Suh should be in the lead, but he won't be because too many "voters" don't know squat about football. All 5 are quality players, but you can find great RB and QB every year and many more in one year then a dominate, game changing D lineman. Suh is the best college football player hands down BECAUSE of the position he plays and the numbers he has this year. Too bad "voters" don't know much about football.

Posted by: JP | Dec 8, 2009 1:35:07 PM

Where in the world is any update today? The last was at 1 a.m. pacific. Geez

Posted by: ATX89 | Dec 8, 2009 2:07:15 PM

There is no denying that Gerhart is an outstanding running back but it should also be taken into consideration who he was running against. Anyone that compares stats in the PAC 10 to stats in the SEC for rushing is just foolish!

Posted by: nickb | Dec 8, 2009 2:10:01 PM

John,

So, Ingram did well in the games you watched huh?

Apparently you missed

FIU - 56 yards
North Texas - 91 yards
Arkansas - 50 yards
Tennessee - 99 yards
Auburn - 38 yards

Good thing he was such a superstar in the other half of the games he played in.


He must have really dominated down the stretch when they needed him the most and that led to a favorable impression on your mind.......

Oh wait, that's right......he only averaged 106 yards per game over the back half of the season (last 6 games). I guess if we add the 18 yards per game receiving, it makes it look better?

Nothing says "Heisman" more than 106 yards per game over the back half of a season.

Posted by: Bill | Dec 8, 2009 2:33:35 PM

Whoever you are, you are a dumb a-s. Ingram has just been named 1st team All SEC and Most Valuable Offensive Player. This on the same All SEC offense with the Heisman winner and 3 time Heisman selection, Tim Tebow. That tells you what the SEC thinks. So who cares what some internet fruitcake thinks! What awards has Gerhart won since last Saturday? I'll lay you 10 to 1 that Ingram also wins the Bronco Nagursky award! RTR!

Posted by: Crimsonite | Dec 8, 2009 2:47:44 PM

One other very important thing. I don't have the figures handy, but Ingram also has far and away the most 10+ and 20+ yard runs of any RB in the nation. RTR!

Posted by: Crimsonite | Dec 8, 2009 2:55:32 PM

Crimsonite:
I am not sure if you are confused, but the Nagursky award is a defensive award, and Suh has already won it.... just FYI.

Posted by: Patrick | Dec 8, 2009 3:05:49 PM

DISAGREE....If you follow NCAA college football at all, you will realize that the SEC is the toughest conference to play in hands down, it does'nt get any tougher, and the talent in the SEC doesn't get any better. Now factor all that and the fact that ALABAMA has one of the best if not the best traditions in colledge footbal and what you end up with is the fact that even the worst team in america will play ALABAMA harder than any team in america and if you look at the stats and factor in the rankings of the teams that ALABAMA beat along with the total yards after contact and the number of broken tackles that Mark Ingram busted thru, then determining who should be the next Heisman winner is so simple, Mark Imgran University Of Alabama..Let me hear from you on this post...

Posted by: Paul | Dec 8, 2009 3:07:43 PM

Posted by Bill,

So, Ingram did well in the games you watched huh?

Apparently you missed

FIU - 56 yards
North Texas - 91 yards
Arkansas - 50 yards
Tennessee - 99 yards
Auburn - 38 yards

I am laughing so hard at your ignorance it's going to be hard to even type this. But here's a shot. The fact that you even posted this nonsense proves that you haven't been paying attention to ingram this season.

Apparently YOU missed
FIU - 56 yds on 10 carries and 4 receptions for 47 yds for a total of 103 yds on 14 touches with or 7.4 yds per touch before being taken out at the halftime of a blow out.
North Texas - 8 carries for 91 yds (yeah that's 11.4 yds/carry) plus 3 catches for another 38 yds. All told, he had 129 total yds and 2 TDs on 11 touches (11.7 yd avg) in just over one quarter of play before Saban sat him down in a 53-7 blowout. And you were trying to use this as a negative?

This is getting long but I think you get the jest of what I'm saying. Saban could've left Ingram in some of these games and Ingram could have had 2000-2200 yards rushing but we are in the middle of winning a championship so rest your stud and let the back-ups get some reps.

Posted by: Legend | Dec 8, 2009 3:14:31 PM

Responding to Bill's Ingram Analysis:

FIU - 56 yds (10 CARRIES + HAD THE FLU)

N. TEX - 91 yds (8 CARRIES)

ARK - 50 yds (BLOWOUT...NO WORK IN 2ND HALF)

TENN - 99 yds (18 CARRIES AGAINST #16 DEFENSE IN THE COUNTRY)

AUB - 30 yds (WORST GAME OF SEASON, 8 IN BOX + SPY ON INGRAM + INJURY)

**over the last 6 games, he averaged 5.6 yards per carry...including games against LSU, TENN, FLA, AUB

**over the course of the season, he faced 6 of the top 28 defenses in the country. against those 6 teams, he averaged 154 yards rushing per game at 6.33 yards per carry. That's better than Gerharts season avg against all those soft d's.

Posted by: TheT12 | Dec 8, 2009 3:24:45 PM

DISAGREE...If you follow NCAA college football at all, then you will know that the SEC is by far the toughest conference in college football period, and the talent in the SEC is far greater than any other conference in america. Now if you take that and factor in that ALABAMA has one of ,if not the best tradition in college football, then you will realize that even the worst teams will play ALABAMA harder than any team in america. With that being said, now factor the rankings of the teams that ALABAMA beat and the total yards after contact, along with the numbers of bust thru tackles that Mark Ingram ran thru on his on merit and power and it becomes very clear and simple to determine who the next Heisman award should go to.. Mark Ingram of The University Of Alabama...Now lets here form you on this post..

Posted by: Paul | Dec 8, 2009 3:29:01 PM

Yeah, I know! Just having fun with the Suh supporters. Funny though, those idiots from the West Coast didn't catch it. I like Suh. But Ingram played against top D's all year. An outstanding O lineman wouldn't have affected him as much as an outstanding roaming LB. He would either have run around Suh or to the opposide of the field. Suh would have had more effect on McElroy who would have thrown more of those quick screens and slants to Ingram who then would have even more recieving yards and td's. RTR!

Posted by: Crimsonite | Dec 8, 2009 3:31:51 PM

Gary want wo know what Ingram would do against Suh?

Well considering Ryan William of Va Tech 21 carries for 107 rushing. And Considering Stephen Sheffield, 3rd string QB at Texas Tech rushes for 2 TDs and goes 23 for 32 passing with 234 yds and another TD. And considering
Iowa ST without their starting QB or starting RB still beat you.

I'm guessing Ingram would've had his average, everyday, dominating performance. But that's just my opinion.

Posted by: Legend | Dec 8, 2009 3:35:50 PM

Suh is the most exciting, dynamic and dominating player to come along in years. He is an incredible athlete and by all accounts a damn fine individual. In this year of sub standard performances by the other Heisman candidates, Suh stands out! He was on a defense that had to compensate for an incredible lack luster offense. Let's do something this year that will stand out. Give the trophy to a running back or quarterback and emphasize the word....G I V E and few will remember who won it two years from now and hardly anyone will remember five years from....award it to the most deserving candidate a stud of a defensive tackle and fans will remember it for years to come. Mr. Suh for the Heisman 2009.

Posted by: G W James | Dec 8, 2009 5:18:53 PM

SUH will win every award he is eligible for, be the number one pick in the draft, get most every football Coaches heisman vote and still be in a tight race because of alot of homer writers. The Heisman is a joke. Ingram is a nice back, but is he a Reggie Bush, Barry Sanders, Billy Sims, Bo Jackson, etc, no. Suh is the Bo Jackson of football this year. His athletic talent and abilities outshined everyone this year and last year. Teams adjusted their whole schemes around trying to block this guy. He wasnt just one aspect of the defense, he was the defense and because of his dominance, his teammates were better. Like I said, Ingram is a nice back, but you could plug in 15 other backs behind Bamas line and get the same result. SUH wins and the heisman returns to being a legitimate award.

Posted by: scott | Dec 8, 2009 5:19:22 PM

Suh should win the Heisman. The difference between Suh and the other candidates for the award is other than Suh the rest of the crew depend on others to make them look good (ie blockers). Suh does it on his own.

Posted by: BR | Dec 8, 2009 5:30:41 PM

It is very interesting that those of us in favor of Suh tout his performances this year rather than critical of others. Those against Suh engage in a campaign of negativity rather than tout their own candidate's performance this year. I find that to be a statement that in fact they do consider Suh to be a legitmate candidate and are doing everything they can give the award to a status quo candidate.

Posted by: G W James | Dec 8, 2009 5:36:15 PM

No comparison: Gerhart is better than Ingram. Gerhart's worst game all season was 82 yards at Wake Forest. Ingram had three games worse: 56 vs. Florida International, 50 vs. South Florida, and only 30 at Auburn (his second to last game of the season). Not only have Gerhart's numbers been more consistant all season, but he stepped it up when it counted. In their four games in November (all against bowl elligible teams - only Notre Dame turned down their invite), Gerhart had 742 yards (223 vs. Oregon, 178 at USC, 130 vs. Cal, and 205 vs. Notre Dame). Ingram only had 425 yards during those same four weeks (which includes only two bowl eligible teams with one of the others being against Mississippi State and Chattanooga). Hands down: Gerhart is better!

Posted by: Robert | Dec 9, 2009 9:39:30 PM

Whoever heard of a Heisman winner being benched and replaced by a freshman by his coach in a game that has national championship implications.

Never happened yet! Unless voters make the mistake of selecting Mark Ingram as the Heisman winner this year.

Posted by: jim | Dec 10, 2009 11:56:14 AM

As I said before, the last ten years has had an Ingram and a Gerhart every year. The next ten will have them again. The only reason they are in consideration is because all the QBs disappointed. If the QBs had done as expected, the invite list to New York would not have any RBs. Gerhart and Ingram are the best leftovers.

Posted by: swanny | Dec 12, 2009 7:26:15 AM

This guy Chisholm is brilliant!

Posted by: MBS | Dec 12, 2009 1:03:13 PM

Want to know why the Auburn game is proof that Ingram deserves the Heisman? Because a team, (Auburn) made it their ENTIRE gameplan to STOP one player.. one KEY player.. one player that they knew was the most important person.. One person they knew would destroy them if they didn't put 8 in box..

One player that deserves the Heisman. Mark Ingram. Ingram could be stopped by an entire defense.. but he enabled his team to win that game because he took half the defense onto himself.

You know how important a shut down corner is to take half the field? well Mark Ingram took 3/4 of the defense away.

Posted by: Danny | Dec 12, 2009 1:53:22 PM

@SECFAN : " Ingram is a good running back, but he needed that extra championship game just to earn enough yards and stats so he could finally be called "the league's best running back."

Yeah, he needed that extra CHAMPIONSHIP game against the #1 DEFENSE in the NCAA to get his stats into being the leagues best running back..

haha.. some people are idiots. You are right, he showed that he is the best running back, because he played against the BEST defense and stomped them.. something Gerhart couldn't have done.

Posted by: Danny | Dec 12, 2009 2:02:45 PM


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