121 Ballots: Gerhart holds lead, Suh & Ingram at #2, then McCoy
Well, the finalists have been announced by the H------ Trophy Trust. As we expected, they are Toby Gerhart, Mark Ingram, Colt McCoy, Ndamukong Suh, and Tim Tebow. The Trust announces them in alphabetical order, but we're glad to see that their top five matches our top five.
With 121 ballots, we're showing Gerhart maintaining his hold on the top spot with strong showings in a number of regions and a projection of 39%. Suh and Ingram continue their virtual tie at 38%, and McCoy right behind at 32%. Tim Tebow is solidly in fourth - but well ahead of the rest of the field at 13%.
Kari Chisholm | December 7, 2009 | Comment on This Post (160 so far)
The idea of the "Brit" Ronald finding this site or even knowing about the Heisman is absurd. This is hilarious.
ur all caps typing and random yelling point out how stupid you are. Did you watch a Husker game start to finish? The idea that the Bronco Nagurski award winner couldn't make second team at Florida says all that we need to know about ur lack of football intelligence, or at least a ridiculous bias.
In fact, I hope everyone takes KC's advice. Watch a Nebraska game from start to finish and focus on Suh. He had a huge game against Texas, but how many times did he force hurried throws, or force runners into other players?
I don't mind if people say they don't think Suh should win the Heisman. There are a couple of good candidates this year. Let's face it, every candidate has arguments against them, if this board is any indication. But people should at least respect the dominant season Suh had this year and how special it really was.
Since the SEC has their own sports channel, ie ESPN, KC, you probably havent seen too much of SUH or the whole NEB defense. If the Huskers had any kind of offense, hell even Southlake Carrol's offense here in texas(a highschool offense) They would have been 12-0 easily. As it was they were 4 points away from being 11-1. Until Sunday they have gotten no national exposure so dont run your mouth without something to back it up on. I was so mad at the result of the Texas Nebraska game I was actually going to root for Alabama, but after reading some of the uneducated posts on this board from Tide fans, I will be sporting burnt orange for the first time in my life. Go Horns, roll the tide!
McCoy and Tebow are a couple of ???(Kittens). Both cried at the possibility of a loss. Tebow cried like a baby; McCoy laid his shoulder on a trainer. Neither deserve a nod. Throw them out and let the rest compete.
KC, apparently you haven't watched Suh this year. If you have, you need to go buy a book and learn something about the game. He leads the nation for Defensive Linemen in tackles, sacks, tackles for loss, passes broken up, interceptions and kicks blocked. Nebraska lost 4 games this year but it damn sure wasn't due to the defense. 11.2 ppg average isn't something to sneeze at. 3 of those 4 games were by a combined 4 points, including the 1 point loss in the last second to #2 Texas, when our offense barely topped 108 yards. I promise you that if Alabama has 108 yards in the NC game they will get smoked by Texas. If you want to watch a determined and awesome Defense, watch the ISU game. I would love to see you take those Gators against anyone, hand them the ball 8 times and come out of it with a win. Hell, you needed 3 turn overs to gum South Carolina to death by a whopping score of 24-14. Exactly what would that score have been had you gone -8 in turn overs? (Hint, SC is 6-5, ISU is 6-6..SC might be a little better but I think you get the point)
Note: Alabama has only won 8 national titles not 12 during the era that football was an actual recognized college sport.
@ KC CRAWFORD - The Huskers lost four games because the offense just couldn't get it together. They would have even taken the Big 12 title if they were able to take advantage of what the defense gave them.
I'm a lifelong Nebraska fan, and while this season was just as frustrating as it was entertaining, I can say that every other NU fan knew Suh's name (and knew how to pronounce it ;) ) long before all this Heisman talk started up. I also respect how he's been willing to let his fellow DT Crick rack up some stats of his own by taking the offensive line's attention. We Nebraskans like our star players, but when they work for the better of the team, they earn a special place in Husker history.
If he's awarded the H, this site will have to be renamed HeavyArmTrophy.com.
where ya at KC. Does it take all Tide fans or Jort wearing Florida fans to type so long! Get your facts straight and don't mess with TEXAS or the SUHnation! Once again and boy do I feel dirty, Go HORNS!!
KC I am sorry but I have watched every game and I will say that you are 100% wrong. If you want to look at every play of every game like you are saying you would know that the main reason the Huskers have Four losses it is because of the offense. They lost to Va. tech because the offense could not get a touchdown they lost to Iowa state cause the offense had 8 tournovers. Now that is a lot of tournovers I don't know any team that can put up that many and still only lose by two points. Next we lose to Texas and again just like Va.Tech the offense Loses the game by not scoreing a touchdown and also like that game they only lose by one point. They also lost to Texas Tech and in that game the Nebraska Defense held that high powered offense To their lowest total Yards of the year. The reason Suh is going to be the number one pick in the draft next year is cause he is the best player in college football this year. I have never heard of a second string player go as the number one pick to the NFL. SUH!!
Also, people like KC CRAWFORD who always types in screaming all caps is what we like to call a simpleton who can't find his Johnson. I've studied the statistics and the Gerhart fellow played against tougher teams based on what appears in the final BCS standings. Pac 10 with 5 BCS teams and nearly 6...SEC with only 3....and the LSU team was helped by corrupt officials is the way we all saw it. LSU is quite overrated. Not only that Gerhart is an actual student who attends courses. KC CRAWFORD will no doubt spend the rest of his life looking for that tiny Johnson...but to no avail. Give up no KC it's really not worth the hunt. Best Ronald. Oh, PS....I'll buy you some pads to take on Gerhart my money's on him knocking you out clean. Go ahead and view the reel below and tell us which missed tackle you'd have made. Toby's got the lean.
Hey this is KC. I'm Back. My boyfriend was helping me zip up my trousers. Zipper was stuck. Sorry all.
hey bryce, this award is for the best player, not team. people like you are the reason so many outstanding players havent won this award.
and archie, suh being 146th in the country in tackles, if you ever watched a game you would see he got double if not triple teamed every play, yet still dominated. against baylor they triple teamed him the entire game, and his fellow DT jared crick had 5 sacks. Suh demands the respect of the opposing teams, he will go number one in the draft, be the highest defensive tackle heisman finalist in years, and win every defensive award out there(he just won the Nagurski award tonight for the greatest defensive player in the country) while you can go around and brag about how biased you are about your overrated SEC conference. alabama will win the Nat Title and thats the only reason ingram will win the heisman
PS suh is the reason mccoy didnt win the heisman...
KC ****FORBRAINS HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU WATCH NEBRASKA THIS YEAR. I MEAN FROM START TO FINISH. THE GUY IS ALL HYPE. KIPER SAYS HE'S GOOD AND SHITHEADS LIKE YOU BELIEVE HIM. GET SOMETHING OTHER THEN A BLACK AND WHITE TV AND STOP WATCHING YOUR LOCAL NEWS AND YOU WILL KNOW THIS CORNHUSKER IS JUST AVERAGE. I FORGOT SINCE YOU ARE A MISS ST. ALUM YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL. MY BAD
KC ****FOR BRAINS YOU, BEING A MISS ST GRAD, MIGHT WANT TO TAKE THE COWBELLS OFF YOUR WIFE AND PUT HER OUT TO GRAZE SO YOU CAN GET SOME SLEEP.
When i look at the Heisman race Suh is a dominant player on the D-line but lets face it the Heisman should go to a offensive player..Suh should be voted the Defensive player of the year..McCoy should be in the top five because he has been consistent all year but he threw 3 picks in his biggest game this year and almost lost track of time and almost lost the Nebraska game for texas...so he shouldn't win it..so it should be between Gerhart and Ingram.
Gerhart might have 194 more yards and 8 more Td's than Ingram, But he has had over 50 more carries than ingram...and Gerhart has played against weaker Defenses.Ingram gets more yards per carry and has had more rushes over 10+ yards than Gerhart.
Also one last thing Florida had the number 1 defense in the nation and only allowed 3 rushing touchdowns against them all season. Mark Ingram Matched that in the Sec championship and also had over 170 total yards on them.
So when it comes down to it Ingram is more Deserving to win the Heisman than the others and should win it in a close race.
Those of you attempting to downplay Suh's stats or performance this year must have been living in a vacuum and did not see him play. He is the most dominant defensive player in the country on either side of the ball by a large margin. His stats are incredible for a DT who has been double and triple teamed all year. As a comparison, Terrance Cody's stats who is considered the other top DT in the country do not even come close to Suh's.
25 tackles, 6 tackles for loss, 0 sacks, 1 pass broken up, 3 QB hurries, 0 interceptions, 0 forced fumbles, 2 blocked kicks
82 tackles, 19.5 tackles for loss, 12 sacks, 10 passes broken up, 19 QB hurries, 1 interception, 1 forced fumble, 3 blocked kicks
How's that for domination?
I think Toby is a stud, but his performance does not measure up to Suh's. Did he have three time the yards than his nearest competition? I think not...
HEY RONALD, I ONLY TYPE IN ALL CAPS SO RETARDS LIKE YOURSELF CAN MAKE OUT ALL THE LETTERS. I ALSO BELIEVE IT IS A WELL KNOW FACT IN THE PSYCOLOGY WORLD THAT ANY MAN THAT TALK ABOUT ANOTHER MANS JOHNSON DOES IN FACT HAVE A LOW SELF ESTEM ABOUT HIS OWN JUNK. GO SEE A SHRINK OR BETTER YET GO SEE KC****FOR BRAINS, I HEARD HE HAS PUT IS WIFE OUT TO PASTURE.
KC Crawford is either delusional, or has early-onset dementia at 47. Suh would be 2nd string for Florida or Alabama, and at 47 he himself could run through the defenses Gerhart has faced. ROFLMAO!!!!! What an idiot!
GARY, HIGH SCHOOL TEAMS IN ALABAMA, FLORIDA AND TEXAS PLAY TOUGHER SCHEDULES THEN STANFORD DOES. THE PAC 10 IS FOR WIMPS. LOOK AT THE COMBINED RECORDS OF THERE OPPONENTS I WOULD BE EMBARASSED TO SAY HE IS A HEISMAN CANDIDATE
HSRFN, THE ONLY POINT I GET IS YOUR OFFENSE SUCKS. MAYBE, JUST MAYBE YOU SHOULD SHOULD TAKE A FEW POINTERS FROM TEAMS LIKE ALABAMA AND FLORIDA AND THAT IS HAVE AN OFFENSE TO GO ALONG WITH A GREAT AND DOMINATE DEFENSE. CHECK OUT THE NCAA STATS. BY THE WAY, THE TIDE WILL HAVE 108 YARDS BY THE END OF THE FIRST QUARTER IN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME. CAN YOU SAY NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. I CAN.
You Bama need to relax. If Ingram wins, it will be because of the typical 'best player on the best team' argument.. but he is not the best running back in college football, not even close. He's a really good running back, for sure! But is he the best player in college football. Please don't, with a straight face, try to make an argument for that.
Heisman voters finally have a chance to get it right this year. Too many times the best players from the best team win it.. Larry Fitzgerald should have won in 2003. Adrian Peterson should have won in 2004. The Heisman voters have gotten it right the past few years, IMO, but this year there's not elite players on Texas or Alabama.
Give it to someone deserving! I'm all for Gerhart or Suh winning this year.. it would be a sharp, but wonderful change to have the best player in college football win it..
MOBB49, THAT JUST PROVES INBREEDING AMONG TEXAS STEERS AND WHAT NEBRASKA BOYS DO WITH CORN COBS. START PLAYING REAL FOOTBALL.
SUHH, YOU ARE PROVING EVERYONES POINT WHEN YOU SAY SUH WAS TRIPLE TEAMED BY BAYLOR. I WASN'T SURE BAYLOR EVEN PLAYED FOOTBALL ANYMORE. SUPERIOR PLAY AGAINST NO TALENT LITTLE 12. I WOULD SURE BE PROUD OF THAT. SEC RULES
MATT, REALLY DO YOU THINK GERHART IS THE BEST RUNNINGBACK IN THE NATION. LOOK AT THE SCHEDULE HE PLAYED AGAINST AND THE NUMBER OF BELOW .500 TEAMS HE WENT AGAINST. THE LEVEL OF COMPETION SHOULD COUNT FOR SOMETHING. SURE I WOULD LOVE TO SEE INGRAM WIN IT BECAUSE HE STEPPED UP HIS GAME AGAINST THE TOP TEAMS. I DON'T THINK HE WILL. I THINK MCCOY WILL GET IT FOR HIS 4 YEARS OF WORK AND THATS NOT RIGHT EITHER.
THE WEATHER OUTSIDE IS FRIGHTFUL BUT PASADENA IS SO DELIGHTFUL......SINCE TEXAS HAS NOWHERE TO HIDE, ROLL TIDE ROLL TIDE ROL TIDE. AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT.
LOL at people "Ingram ran against the best defenses," "gerhart has padded stats running against high school teams" LOL. Pac 10 makes your beloved SEC look like peewee compared to what u called "high school" pull your uneducated Bama head out of ur butt and go back to school, learn some critical thinking or analytical skills.
Ingram ran against lesser teams with a stronger team. Put Ingram on stanford and in the pac 10 and he is a NOBODY. dont be ridiculous.
"he performed so well against florida" what did he have again? 200 all purpose yards?
Ya toby didn't do that against some of the best teams in the pac 10... /sigh.
When the pac 10 takes every bowl trophy home all of the SEC will cry.
Toby for heisman UNDOUBTEDLY. Biggest impact on college football this season in comparison to any other single player. Gerhart carried the stanford team to its first bowl game in 8 years. He is BY FAR the biggest single person impact in college football this season. "Ingram had a great game against florida" ... barely over 100 yards rushing... and 1 big broken pass play = a good game? Wow how low standards are in the SEC, no wonder you guys worship the SEC teams so much, you have such low standards...
That's how it SHOULD shakedown...but it won't. Too many uninformed voters. Gerhart is a great RB...but where the heck was he in FOUR losses, including to mighty Wake Forest? Seriously, Gerhart hasn't faced nearly the defensive front 7s that Ingram has. Statistical rankings don't always tell the whole story. If you play in a passing league, then teams will probably have highly "ranked" run defenses...since they don't have to play against good running teams week in and week out. Ingram could have 2,000 yards rushing if Saban had just left him in all the games and gave him all the carries. The fact that Bama has other good players being a knock on Ingram is beyond stupid. Ingram went for nearly 200 total yards against the #1 ranked defense and #1 team in the biggest game of the season. I'm sorry, running over a pitiful Notre Dame team or the worst USC team in a decade doesn't even compare.
TREVOR, ARE YOU STILL IN HIGH SCHOOL? QUIT USING TEENAGED TEXT GARGAN. GROW UP, BE LIKE OKLA. ST. COACH, BE A MAN. ALSO LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT FOOTBALL BEFORE YOU COMENT ON THE PISS 10. I MEAN PAC 10
Honestly I can't stand this award. It has come to too much of a "Best player on the best team award" instead of the "Best overall college player award". It doesn't say "Best RB or QB award". The Criteria doesn't include "Must be on a championship, undefeated team."
I am happy Gerhardt and Suh are 2 of the finalists this year being on teams that aren't undefeated going to a BCS game, or even being on the conference championship teams. These two are dynamic players and were very important to their teams successes this year. They make specific awards for the best running back, quarter back, wide receiver, etc. I also don't think stats are everything that should go into the Heisman award.
(This next statement may be biased because I am a Clemson student and life-long fan)
But how a player changes the game should also go into it, like how Spiller changed a lot of the games for Clemson. I know some of you may say kick returning yards don't really count, but when Spiller returns so many kicks for TD's that teams start kicking out of bounds, or kicking to the people on the return team at the 40 yard line, that changes a game dramatically. Most of you probably didn't watch the Clemson/Miami game, which I wouldn't normally blame you because it's the ACC but this game was amazing, but when Miami kicked to him after scoring with 50 seconds left before half-time and he took it to the house he kept Clemson in that game. He single-handedly won that game and kept Clemson in the ACCCG last saturday with his performance against GT (albeit they have a horrid rush defense). But having an average starting field position being the 30-40 yard line on kickoff is an amazing statement to how much Spiller was feared when he touched the ball. It sucks that he wasn't invited but I can see why he wasn't as well.
I don't like how journalists who cover teams are able to vote for the Heisman. Not knocking Suh but who would have guessed the guy from huskerillustrated would vote him number 1? Also a lot of the past Heisman winners will vote for players from their team. I wish we could come up with an unbiased system for voting for the Heisman. Players like Keenum (Houston), and Moore (Boise St.) are extremely good and get snubbed because they don't play in the big time conferences. However, without these players I don't think Boise is undefeated and I don't think Houston beats Ok. St. or TTU.
I also think they should come up with a Heisman type defensive awards because a lot of times the best player in college football is a defensive player (possibly Suh this year) and they get over looked because they are defensive players.
All in all I don't have a dog in the race, because Spiller was not invited, but I honestly think it should be Suh or Gerhardt to win it this year. Without these two those teams aren't anywhere as good as they were this year. Without Ingram Alabama would have been fine with that offensive line they had (take off the Crimson Tide glasses Bama fans), and Tebow had below par numbers for what he has had his career but you can make the argument Florida would not be 12-0 going into last Saturday as well so I think he should be in there. McCoy should also be in there because without him I don't think Texas is in the BCS Championship game this year, but I don't think he should win it for the same reason Tebow should not.
With these finalists, I think Suh should win it, followed by Gerhardt, and I don't really know about third but probably McCoy.
WAY TO TELL IT LIKE IT IS CHAD!!!!!!!!!
also noticed this, take the # of carries by each vs. the bottom 3 rushing defenses they faced (parentheses is teams rushing defense rank) :
Notre Dame (#90) - 29
Washington St. (#117) - 23
San Jose St. (#119) - 24
North Texas (#104) - 8
FIU (#116) - 10
Chattanooga (N/A) - 11
That sums it up right there. Ingram is a better running back that Gerhart. Better YPC against better competition. Ingram didn't pad his stats against the weak sister teams like McCoy and Gerhart. If they want to give it to Suh...a great DL, but one that just recorded his first multi-sack game of the season, fine, but Gerhart and McCoy, while fine players, don't deserve to win the trophy. I'd love to see Gerhart play the teams Bama just played. Go ahead and give it to Gerhart...then when he plays a halfway decent Def in the bowl game, once again there will be egg on the faces of the Heisman voters.
RYAN, THE ONLY THING CLEMSON HAS GOING FOR IT IS A FORMER ALABAMA FOOTBALL PLAYER AS THE HEAD COACH. IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY THE ONLY NAT'L TITLE CLEMSON HAS IS WHEN YOU HAD ANOTHER BAMA BOY IN DANNY FORD. WHY DON'T YOU SHOW THE TIDE AND MARK INGRAM SOME LOVE?
CHAD, ONCE AGAIN TELL IT LIKE IT IS. SOMETIMES I WISH COACH SABAN WOULD LET OUR PLAYERS PAD THE STATS, BUT THEN AGAIN THAT'S NOT THE ALABAMA WAY. ROLL TIDE
So you can have 4 L's and win this trophy now WoW that nice to know down the Road
Toby Gerhart > Mark Ingram. Anyone who thinks otherwise either hasn't seen both play or is delusional.
9/12 @Wake Forest L 24-17 17 82 4.8 nice numbers against a crappy ass ACC team.
This wasn't a who's team is better type of post. Bama had an outstanding year. I loved watching Ingram run all over the Gamecock defense this year. I don't know if you have an inferiority complex or not but, most of the time when you boast about your conference over your team that is a loser's mentality. Admit that you had a stout team and a player being good on a stout team doesn't mean that he should win the Heisman Trophy. Without Gerhardt or Suh where do you think Stanford or Nebraska end up? And don't start with the "SEC is the toughest conference in America" because I agree that it is. But because Ingram was on the best team in the best conference doesn't necessarily mean that he should win the Heisman Trophy. That being said it is amazing that Bama ran the table in the SEC and I think you will also win the National Championship.
This award should mean more than that. And I just think that Suh was the most important to his team and it is outstanding what he did this year. I saw him play last year against Clemson and he was amazing, this year he was better. Ingram is just a sophomore right? If so he is my pick to win it next year because he should make this year's numbers look like a cake walk.
And for the record I am glad that Dabo is the coach at Clemson, I like the style of Football he wants to get this team to play and I also think he will be good because he knows how to play Bama football and played on one of the National Championship teams under Gene Stallings. And yes Danny Ford also came from Alabama and I am glad he was able to give us a National Championship. But this isn't a dick swinging contest about who's team is better, it's about the players.
ONLY IF YOUR ON THE WEST COAST AND ALL THE VOTERS VOTE FOR THEIR PLAYER FROM THAT REGION. THERE ARE TOO MANY GOOD PLAYERS FROM TEXAS TO THE EAST COAST SO EVERYTHING GETS SPLIT UP.
CESAR, I WOULD COMMENT ON YOUR LACK OF FOOTBALL KNOWLEDGE, BUT YOU PROBABLY CAN'T READ. YOU ONLY REPEAT WHAT YOU HEAR OTHER PEOPLE WITH NO KNOWLEDGE SAY.
2 Midcard SEC teams Killed the 2 best ACC teams and he can only get 82 yard on Wake Forest. haha what a joke. OMG look how many yards spiller had on Bama's D Last Year C. Spiller CAR2 YDS7 AVG3.5 TD0 omg.
RYAN, BY USING YOUR STANDARD OF WHERE WOULD A TEAM BE WITHOUT HIM, THEN YOU WOULD HAVE TO SAY TEBOW SHOULD BE UP THERE AT #1. WITHOUT HIM FLORIDA IS NOT THE SAME TEAM AND WOULD PROBABLY HAVE LOST 4 OR 5 GAMES THIS YEAR.
RYAN, OR EVEN GETTING CLOSER TO HOME, WHERE WOULD CLEMSON BE WITHOUT SPILLER? DON'T PUNISH A GREAT BACK FOR HAVING TALENT AROUND HIM. JUST LOOK AT THE YARDS AFTER CONTACT THAT INGRAM GOT. HE OUTGAINED GLENN COFFEE FROM LAST YEARS TEAM THAT HAD 2 FIRST TEAM ALL AMERICANS.
Actually from things I have heard, Brantley is actually a much better QB than Tebow is from a passing standpoint. I don't think they would be much worse without him, time will tell for next year, but I also think Florida's defense won a lot of games for them this year. I'm sure you saw what happened when Bama throttled that defense on Saturday. Tebow couldn't make up for that and that's why I don't think he should win it this year. They definitely wouldn't have lost 4 or 5 games this year without him either.
I'm glad you brought up stats for ONE game from ONE year ago, and the TD - 0 is inaccurate, he took the second half kickoff back for a TD against Bama. And thanks again for bringing up the SEC. Listen closely, WE GET IT. The SEC is the best conference in football, I believe it and admit it. But basing that the ACC is that terrible off of two RIVALRY games is laughable. Clemson did get it handed to them (sadly) by a team that claims to be good because they play in the SEC and get beat by the Bama, Florida, Tenn, UGA, etc. year in and year out. Don't stoop to that level. Also in the GT game, UGA took advantage of the fact that GT had 6 starters out on their defense, hence why Cox only threw the ball 14 times. Don't let two games make a statement for you. Actually I don't know what your post has to do with anything related to the Heisman at all. Why is that? I mean this is about the Heisman right?
Clemson may have not even been in a bowl game without Spiller, which is why I'm in awe that he didn't even earn an invite. But I realize that is because Clemson is in the ACC and he didn't put up incredible rushing numbers. But he did carry this team and I am extremely proud that he came to Clemson because he is an outstanding football player and an even more outstanding person. If you ever watch a C.J. Spiller highlight film you will know what I am talking about because your jaw will drop at what he can do on a football field. Believe me I wish we could be in the SEC and play against the best of the best but you play who you play. I'm not punishing a great back, I said he is my pick to win it next year, but I just don't think he was the best college player this year. That is my opinion and sadly, that is what this award is based on: the opinions of voters who are most likely largely biased/uninformed.
RYAN, IN RECENT YEARS, HOW MANY PURE PASSERS HAVE SUCCEDED IN THIS CONFERENCE. NOT SINCE SPURRIER WAS AT FLORIDA. I REALLY BELIEVE FLORIDA WILL HAVE TROUBLE WINNING THE EAST NEXT YEAR WITHOUT TEBOW. NOW DON'T GET ME WRONG, I DON'T THINK TEBOW SHOULD WIN IT THIS YEAR. BUT I DO RESPECT HIM FOR WHAT HE HAS BROUGHT TO THE GAME.
RYAN I AGREE SPILLER IS OUTSTANDING AND WILL MAKE ALOT OF MONEY AT THE NEXT LEVEL. I ALSO AGREE THAT THE MAJORITY OF VOTERS ARE UNINFORMED AND JUST READ THE STATS AND DON'T ACTUALLY WATCH THE PLAYERS THEY ARE VOTING FOR. JUST WATCHING HIGHLIGHTS ANYONE CAN LOOK GOOD. I KNOW I AM BIASED FOR INGRAM BECAUSE I SAW HIM EVERY WEEK. AND YES ALABAMA DOES HAVE ALOT OF TALENT AROUND HIM. BUT TO HEAR THE COACHES AND TEAMMATES TALK, THERE IS NOT A HARDER WORKER BOTH ON AND OFF THE FIELD THEN INGRAM. THATS WHY HE IS ABLE TO BREAK TACKLES AND GET STRONGER TOWARDS THE END OF THE GAME. I MAY BE LOOKING THROUGH CRIMSON GLASSES BUT I WOULDN'T TRADE HIM FOR ANY BACK IN THE COUNTRY. WHATS SAD AND GOOD IS RICHARDSON IS JUST AS GOOD IF NOT BETTER AND WILL PROBABLY GET MORE CARRIES NEXT YEAR CUTTING INTO INGRAMS OUTPUT. I KNOW THATS A GOOD THING BUT NEVER HAVING HAD A HEISMAN WINNER MAKES US BAMA FANS HUNGRY FOR ONE.
Don't get me wrong, I respect Tebow tremendously. Not just as a football player but as a person. I have never seen someone so passionate about his team, school, religion as he is. I just don't think he should win it based on stats. Without Tebow they probably wouldn't have went 12-0 in the regular season. But as important to one's team a player is, stats should also back it up. Too often is the Heisman about only stats or a popularity contest. Their are a lot of intangibles that go into being the "Best player in college football." The only reason I believe that Florida will still control the East next year is that side of the conference just wasn't good this year. It will be a toss-up next year. You have 4 teams at 7-5, none of them finishing above .500 in conference. I don't know if it's because there was a HUGE drop off from Florida or what, but I think they have a favorable chance to repeat next year.
As far as pure passers go, that goes back to the SEC being an "establish the run first" type of conference. But this year Ryan mallet put up some pretty good passing numbers: 3,425 yds, 29 TD's, 7 int's, good for the 6th best rating in the nation. But others that come to my mind are Jay Cutler, Eli Manning, Matt Stafford, Peyton Manning (of course), David Greene, and Rex Grossman was pretty good at Florida too. But I agree it is harder to be a good QB in the SEC with the speed of the defenses and the priority on running the football, which is the style of football I like.
I feel your pain, Clemson has not had a Heisman winner either, and this year may have been our best chance with Spiller. I know we don't have the "rich" tradition that most Clemson fans like to boast about and I am man enough to admit that. I believe you that Ingram is a hard worker, as I can assure you Spiller is too (he was on the Dean's list and will graduate next week in 3.5 years). He could have went pro last year but wanted to graduate to show his daughter how important education is. He went against his own mother's wishes and came to Clemson as well as stayed for his senior year. He played this entire year with a turf toe he suffered in the first game. He also took a hit in stats because against teams like Coastal Carolina Spiller played the first drive and that was it. Against MTSU he only played the first half if I remember correctly, much like Ingram against the lower teams. In my opinion this shows how important these players are to their teams because the coaches don't want them injured by padding their stats. I wouldn't trade Spiller for anyone either but if I had to make a decision to I would no doubt want Ingram on Clemson's team. And another reason Clemson wants a Heisman winner is that is the ONLY thing that South Carolina has over us is George Rogers winning it in 84 I think? I wasn't born then lol. But as an emphasis on how screwed up the Heisman voting is now, Rogers played on a 7-4 South Carolina Team.
Another fun fact for Clemson, John Heisman, whom the trophy is named after, was one of our first coaches and he still has the highest winning percentage of any coach at Clemson.
KC I also know a highlight reel will make anyone look good. But what I was trying to get at is the amount of highlights Spiller has. I believe he is around 25 plays of 50 yards or more in his career, Reggie Bush can't even touch that. But at one point this year, I think up until the Wake Forest game, C.J. had a play of at least 60 yards or more in every game. I think it was 6 or 7 games in a row. He is just an electrifying type of player and it will be a sad day for Clemson fans on December 27th watching him wear that jersey for the last time.
RYAN, STAFFORD HAD A GREAT BACK TO HELP OUT AND ALLOW THE DOWN FIELD PASS. MANNING HAD WORLD CLASS SPEED AT RECIEVER (BOTH WIDE OUTS) GREENE NOT ONLY PASSED BUT COULD RUN ASWELL. THE REST INCLUDING MALLOT THIS YEAR HAD GREAT NUMBERS BUT THATS ALL THEY HAD TO SHOW FOR IT. BELIEVE ME I AMNOT MAKING A POINT FOR TEBOW BUT HE HAD NO BREAK AWAY BACK NO SPEED RECIEVERS AND WAS THE FACE OF THAT TEAM FOR 3 YEARS. WITHOUT HIM I JUST THINK FLORIDA IS A GOOD TEAM NOT A GREAT TEAM. HE MEANT ASMUCH FOR THE GATORS AS SUH DID FOR NEBRASKA AND GERHART FOR STANFORD. JUST MY OPINION!
RYAN, THE OTHER SCHOOL IN OUR STATE AUBURN HAS TWO WINNERS PAT SULLIVAN IN '71 AND BO JACKSON. UNFORTUNATLY I HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR BOTH OF THEM. ALSO HEISMAN COACHED AT AUBURN ALSO.
RYAN, I'LL MAKE A DEAL WITH YOU I'LL VOTE FOR SPILLER IF YOU WILL VOTE FOR INGRAM.
I certainly respect your opinion and those are some great points. But my counterpoints would have to be that even though they had all those things, the QB's still had to be good enough to make the reads, throw the football, and withstand pressure from the defense. If I was to have those things I still wouldn't be a great QB because I don't have the physical talents to do those things (I was a RB/WR in High School). But my problem with that point is this: 1) Joe Cox had arguably the best WR in the SEC in A.J. Greene but still had lack luster passing yards and really hindered Georgia this year. 2) Greg McElroy had Julio Jones, who can be argued with Greene for the best WR, to throw to which would make safeties have to come over to help provide coverage for him leaving Ingram a better chance to pick up extra yardage if the O-line was able to block well into the second level (LB's).
Ingram has a great O-line, from what I've seen this year, but if you put most backs in the country in behind that line I'm sure a lot of them would have great numbers too but I'll admit probably not as good as Ingram's are.
But as far as Mallet only having stats to show for it goes back to Arkansas probably not having the best defense in the country as well as getting shafted in some games (Florida and possibly the LSU game).
But if having a good surrounding cast should hinder a player then I'm not sure how anyone would ever win the Heisman. I guess my point in naming off the QB's was to say that they put up the numbers even though they play in the SEC which has outstanding defenses, as I have been able to watch when Clemson gets to play an SEC team.
And I agree on the fact that Tebow had no speed surrounding him, this year showed how important Percy Harvin was for that team last year, as well as the other WR they lost his name escapes me though. I said all year they weren't as good as last year but people would not believe me because they thought Tebow was the be all end all for Florida and this year proved it wasn't the case.
KC, Ingram has my vote for next year barring injury or him just not producing for some reason. Unfortunately it is too late for Spiller but oh well. And yeah I thought I had read Heisman was at Auburn before coming to Clemson before moving on to Georgia Tech. But from what I've read he was as hard nosed coach on the field as well as in the classroom as there was.
And I think Ingram is gonna grant your wish for a Heisman, the last update shows Ingram in the lead.
So bryce, you're saying that Ingram's a better player because his team was 13-0? You could almost make the argument that having such an incredible team around him means he didn't have to be as good by himself, so maybe we should look at a player who dominated college football on a mediocre team (Ndamukong Suh, anyone?).
Legend, Ingram's final stats may have suffered from not playing as much, but you can't argue that a player would have been the best IF they'd had more playing time. The thing is, Suh, McCoy and Gerhart were out there every play of every series, and they performed at a high caliber the whole season (except for McCoy's abominable final game which probably cost him the award). That kind of durability is definitely reflected in this award, and it's harder to justify giving it to somebody who sat out so many second halves (as you say), whether it was the coach's call or not.
Gerhart is your clear winner. He broke the PAC 10 rushing TD record and his total would have also broken the SEC mark of 23. In fact, it's the 3rd highest total by a tailback in NCAA history. That bested Simpson, Allen, and White. Better than Walker and Bo. Is scoring no longer important in football, I can't remember?
Oh, and he also led the country in rushing yardage. Case is closed.
In response to a post yesterday that Suh is 146th in tackles - so what!!! The award is not solely based on statistics, it's given to the 'Most Outstanding Player'. Suh determined the outcome of some of those games...by HIMSELF. He is an INTERIOR LINEMAN & leads the team in tackles. He plays like a LB, has played on offense, beat numerous double-teams & his presence makes those around him better. That is the very definition of the MOP & he should be awarded as such.
The main reason Ingram is even being considered is because he plays for Alabama, they are undefeated & playing for a NC; none of which are listed as criteria for the Heisman. One cannot help the conference strength & the SEC has cellar-dwellers, just like the Big 12 so get off that soap box. Since you are so statistical, I did a little research. Of the 12 teams in the SEC, 6 teams have losing records & 3 teams are at .500. In comparison, 4 teams in the Big 12 have losing records & 1 team is at .500. Alabama also had FIU, N Texas & Tenn-Chattanooga on their schedule. I must have fallen & smacked my head on the pavement but exactly when did these schools become the 'best' teams in the country? Players don't have a say in the opponent; they just go out & dominate regardless.
No one outside the state of Nebraska was even giving NU a chance against Texas, you know, the team that is also playing for the NC. Although Texas won, fellow Heisman candidate Colt McCoy will be the first to tell you he is glad that it was the first & last time he will have to line up across from Suh. I am so tired of hearing Suh doesn't belong on the ballot. Not only does he deserve to be on the ballot, he deserves to WIN it, just as much as anyone else.
suh would have been a better rb than ingram or gerhart.
ingram and gerhart would not have been able to carry suh's jockstrap as defensive tackles.
by the way, the SEC offenses are weak. that explains why people believe the SEC defenses are strong.
Big Suh is suuuuuhweet
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