2009 Trash Talk (open thread)
OK, if you want to promote your favorite Trophy candidate - or trash talk someone else's -- do it right here. Anything violent, racist, or otherwise uncool will be deleted. Run-of-the-mill idiocy will be allowed.
If you have official voter tips, post 'em over here.
There really is no strength of schedule comparison. Let's use Jeff Sagarin's rankings. Alabama has a strength of schedule at 20th toughest in the nation. Stanford has a strength of schedule at 19th. Comparable! And you know what? Stanford has a slight edge as well. It's time for you to denounce Jeff Sagarin now...(Nebraska sits at a paltry 48th hardest SOS).
Before the conference championships, Stanford was at 16th hardest schedule in the nation, and Alabama was at 27th hardest. Stanford still played a harder schedule, even by objective standards.
Ndamukong Suh will get robbed and not win the H....trophy. Because no one out east watches anything but sec and acc football. But rest assured when he wins NFL rookie of the year the people out east will find out all about this dominating Defensive Lineman. He is already being compared to Reggie White. Who cares about that joke of a trophy any ways. Besides Peyton Manning name any winner who actually did anything in the NFL. Even Reggie Bush has had a mediocre NFL career so far. We got 3 H... trophy winners selling autographs at the bars outside the stadium already don't need another one. The Stiff arm trophy is a total joke it hasn't gone to the best football player in a long time and probably never will.
The previous winners of the Heisman have overwhelmingly gone for McCoy -- the only group of voters to do so. Here's my question: are they required to vote early, or are they not allowed to actually watch college football?
love this quote... "Ingram is the best player on the best team in college football playing in the best conference in the country. enough said."
"Just one question: If Gerhart (or Ingram) is bounding through a hole, Suh is there to meet him and it's one yard for a first down – who wins?"
probably either running back... esp Ingram, and ESP Trent Richardson... they would have the momentum, as they would have a 5-6 yard head start.
that must be some good "kool-aid" this guy is drinkin'....
"Ok let's get this right. SEC is overrated in all categories. In 2009 ESPN statwatch says the top 6 PacTen teams played tougher schedules than any of the SEC Teams. Similarly, ESPN statwatch shows SEC Defenses are statistically inferior to PacTen Defenses. Also, SEC schools typically produce functionally illiterate footbaall players many of whom can't even read at a 6th grade level. Try as you might you BRAINWASHED SEC worshippers the facts reveal a far different story than your daddy has been shoving down your throat."
C'mon people. Donkey Kong Suh is tremendous, yes, but he wasn't even a Heisman BLIP before the Big XII Champ game. As for all the girls on here saying Colt shouldn't get it because he is a "jerk". Really? Get your heart broken or something?
I see TONS of McCoy hating on here, Must mean he deserves it...lol.
Interesting how many voters from the south left Mark Ingram off their ballot, especially in the Knoxville area.
He may not be the best player in the country, but after Tim and Colt had meltdowns, he should be in the top three.
Having a little too much time on my hands I have devised a formula for all the Toby Gerhart fans to ponder. I made a performance per defense ratio, where total yards from scrimmage was divided by the average rank of the defenses faced by each running back this season, the larger number the better. Since Alabama played a few cream puffs, I excluded the yards gained against Florida International and Chattanooga (aprox 200 for both games). Ingram's adjusted yards from scrimmage 1668 (rushing and receiving), Gerhart's total not adjusted 1885.
Hold on this is where it gets interesting, the defenses that Ingram played against averaged a rank of 42, including 6 of the top 30 and none over 100. Gerhart's average defense rank faced is 61, only two in the top 30 and the 109th and 120th best defenses in the NCAA FCS this year.
When taking the average rank and dividing by total yards you get Ingram 39.71 and Gerhart 30.90. So yes Ingram had a terrible game against Auburn (a team that spent 2 weeks game planning specifically to stop Ingram)but when you look at performance vs. the level of competition, Ingram wins hands down.
Suh is by far the best player in the country.... it has to be pretty even between Suh and Gerhart.... but i havent seen a player dominate the defensive side of the ball for a long time... Woodson was good, but he also returned kicks. GO SUH!!
I dont know why nobody is giving my boy Tebow some more love!!! He is the greatest college football player of ALL TIME and by far the best athlete in the nation. He deserves his second Heisman so that he is remembered as the greatest to have ever played. Tebow for the stiffarm trophy!!! Oh, and BAMA SUCKS!!!!
As to Mr. Ingram's chances for the Heisman Trophy. As long as envious and jealous writers, talking heads, and other assorted disreputable types have a vote in the Heisman award, there will be no winner from Alabama.
The miscreants who vote in the states that border Alabama and whose woefully inadequate football teams who have been, are, and forever will be inferior to Alabama will spitefully refuse to vote for the best and will go sulk in their little playpens. rown upJealousy and envy are sad to see in "grown up"
And if, perchance, Mr. Ingram should win the Heisman Award; it will not be through the efforts of these guttersnipes. Mr. Ingram will win this award on the vote of people in other parts of the United States who recognize true talent and are not biased because of the school Mr. Ingram attends.
Suh sack totals:
Texas Tech 0
Fla Atlantic 0
La Lafayette 0
Suh is the most outstanding player on the field in any college matchup. What people do not realize is that defensive tackles are not suppose to lead your team in tackles, they plug the middle and occupy linemen so the linebackers are free of blocks so they can make plays. A good d-tackle stands his man up and puts him in the offensive backfield, a great d-tackle does this while being double teamed, triple teamed, cut blocked, and a Heisman d-tackle does all of this while recording a team high 82 tackles, 12 sacks, 1 interception and 2 blocked field goals. Maybe if he won they could replace the football with Colt McCoy's head.
Suh is the only choice, and here's why:
McCoy: Suh eliminated him from contention by dominating Colt's offense in the B12 title game. You can't get outplayed like that by a fellow Heisman candidate and win the award - that would be highway robbery.
Tebow: Has inflated TD numbers because UF lets him punch it in whenever possible. He has nine rushing TDs from five yards and in, while the rest of the team only has two from that distance. Rushed for under four yards per carry and had only had 8 total TD and 4 INTs in SEC play. Not exactly Heisman caliber.
Gerheart: Yes, led nation in rushing yards (1,736) but also led in carries (311) and finished 51st in yards per carry (5.6). Was a workhorse and consistently moved the chains but is one-dimensional (I'm sorry, I want more out of the Heisman than a power back with a nose for the endzone). Unlike Ingram, Gerheart was never rested this season and got full workloads every game, and his number reflect that.
Ingram: Unlike Gerheart, was rested a lot and didn't get a full workload against bad teams with horrible run defenses, which limited his overall numbers. Got less than Certainly would have finished with better numbers than Toby but only got 29 combined carries against North Texas, FIU and Chattanooga. Ingram is a receiving threat while Gerheart is not (30 catches to 10). In 279 combined carries and catches, Ingram gained 1,864 yards. In 321 combined carries and catches, Gerheart gained 1,885 yards. Ingram was more productive, but his bad effort in rivalry game against Auburn hurts. Heisman can't go to someone who was a non-factor in the Iron Bowl.
It seems kinda petty to penalize Gerheart for being his team's best offensive option, but I have a hard time believing that other elite RBs wouldn't have done as much (or more) with the same opportunity. But then again, if you vote Gerheart #1, you're penalizing Ingram for playing on an elite team that routinely blew teams out and thus didn't use his services when he was likely to put up huge numbers.
So I'd vote:
Suh's best competition (Spiller) wasn't even invited to NY.
Suh is rediculous. McCoy needed a rape kit and a pregnancy test after that game. Suh should have let him run around like the clown he is for a second longer on that last play.
Suh or Gerhart should win it, Ingram will.
NDOMINATION --- 'nuff said!!!
I'm sorry dobto_suh but that's rediculous reasoning. There is absolutely NO way in the world you can justify that loss to Suh. Suh carried half the team on his back (the other half by the rest of the defense)through the entire game. McCoy was an inch away from the sideline when he threw that ball so it wouldn't of mattered. In fact, it was probably so close to it being the game ending throw because McCoy was hit as he threw it so it went higher than he wanted it too. And the whole thing about a great player waiting is even more ridiculous, did you expect him to shuck his block, turn his head so he could se the play clock, and then wait so he could perfectly time the hit? ya right
Can anyone out there give me just one reason Tim Teblow should even be considered for the Heisman? Give me one stat where he is even in the top 10 other than Ball Hog TD Runner Near the Goal Line & Cry Baby ("There's no crying in football"). Not QB rating, Not passing yards, not passing %, not yards per attempt, not passing TDs, not least INTs, Not rushing, not winning (4 other QBs are undefeated), not nothing. Other than media hype, what has he done THIS YEAR?
If I had a vote, it would go like this:
#1 - Ndamakong Suh - easily the most gifted and game dominating player in college football today.
#2 - Gerhart - This guy is a machine. But, he falls just barely behind Suh.
#3 - Ingram - but, McClain might actually be the best player on that team. It's not all about stats and what record your team has.
Mean Machine - are you kidding, neither one of those guys you mentioned could get one yard with Suh standing in the way. C'mon. Really?
Mark Ingram should win this years Heisman he plays in the greatest conference in the land he averaged way over 100 yds per game against ranked teams.Hes done as much for his team as any candidate in the race.When he runs over Texas in the BCS CHAMPIONSHIP all the country will know he is the best runningback and best player in all of college football
- 3 BLOCKED FIELD GOALS
-12 TACKLES, 7 TACKLES FOR LOSSES 4.5 SACKS AGAINST A TEAM THAT AVERAGED 451.6 YDS A GAME, 43 POINTS GOING INTO THE GAME
-A DT WIT A INTERCEPTION? ONLY SUH CAN
-IF THE OFFENSE WASNT SO HORRIBLE, NEBRASKA WOULD BE SITTING AT 11-1
Us BAMA fans will say what we think and all you haters can just deal with it.Ingram will win the heisman McCoy 2nd Suh 3rd Tim Tebow 4th and poor little gerhart last as where he should be
if you want to hear Suh's case, read this:
Suh? I can count the time I heard this name before Saturday on well......I hadn't heard of him till Saturday. Why in God's name is this guy even in the top five? He'd be the 2nd or 3rd best DT in the SEC and probably outside the top five in defensive player over all. Gerhart has great numbers yes but against lesser teams and with more touches than Ingram. McCoy's last game showed his inconstancy and Tebow well.....he's just out of it this year. If Ingram doesn't win then it's because of bias and shady voting. The 3, 2, 1 voting is crap. Vote who you think is best and leave it at that. This crap about putting Ingram 3 or completely off the ballad to make sure he doesn’t win is bull.
There is all this talk of putting Ingram and Suh on a field and seeing who would win - I know who would win. Its Ingram - at first. Suh has never seen a runner like Ingram. But Ingram has practiced for 2 years against a better run blocker than Suh - Terrance Cody. Notice I did not say a better player, just a better run blocker. Suh would run circles around Cody on pass defense - he has to, he is in the pass happy Big 12.
So put them on the field and Ingram would win the first 5-10 plays easy - until Suh adjusted. And as a great player, he would adjust just as Ingram would adjust and learn Suh. My point is some comparisons cannot be made - and some should not be made.
Who is better on defense - Suh or Alabama's Cody? If you looked at games as a fan, then it is Suh. But in the Big 12, you can somewhat throw out run defense and just go all out for the quarterback. I looks flashy and great of TV. You try that in the SEC and you lose every game - different style. Notice different - not better or worse, just different. So who is better a flashy Suh or "Mount" Cody, who takes on about 2.5 offensive blockers and still makes the run tackle? Asked who I would take for my team and I would answer "Yes".
So unless they have played each other, you have to look at who they have played and what the opposition was. I know (but many will say I am just bias) that the SEC is far superior to all the other conferences. I can prove that based on the last 5 years of Bowl game head to head match-ups. So I think Ingram should win the Heisman based on playing much better teams. But I remember the year that top 3 Big 12 (then the Big 8) played the top 3 SEC teams in Bowls and not just beat the SEC but stomped all over us. It comes in cycles.
So putting them on the field proves - nothing. After all there are 22 people on the field during a game. I wish the Heisman were after the bowl games when you get more cross conference play and can get a better feel for who is really the better conferences - and therefore the better player. And I wish the Heisman was a true best player - not just the flashy QB award unless all the QB fall down and then give to a running back as a fall back.
WHAT VERMIN BAMA RIVAL VOTERS IN THE SOUTHEAST ALL LEAVING INGRAM OUT OF TOP 3.WHAT A BUNCH OF POWERLESS IMPOTENT LOSERS TRYING TO BE SOMEBODIES
Adam. Which 1 or 2 DTs would be better than him??
He's #1 on Kiper's Big Board (OF ALL PLAYERS).
He's rated the #1 DT on everyones board
He won the Nagurski Trophy which goes to the "Most outstanding defensive player" on Monday. Tell me why nobody beat him out (even Alabama's nose guard).
Lastly, if you get the chance, ask anybody that played him and ask if he's any good. I promise you, he's the best defensive player of the decade, and possibly the last 20 years. To say he isn't the best defensive player is utterly ridiculous and you've lost all credibility as a sports fan
Ingram plays his best against the best. Thats heisman
I love this site, but...
It seems like since it's sole purpose for being is this one week of the year, it could be updated (with at least commentary, if not votes) more often. Thanks for what you do; great site!
Also, I'm a biased McCoy fan that didn't see much Suh, but if he only had 12 sacks all year and 4.5 of them were against Texas, how good could he have been with 7.5 sacks in his other 12 games (that's 0.63/game)?!?
First of all, saying Ingram has been off and on all season and then mention ONLY the auburn game clearly states your knowdlege of alabama football. NOT. He has been consistant all season and an amazing athelete, and not to mention a class act person.Having one off game should not take away from his abilities and knowdglement of the heinsman. Thats saying, Colt Mccoy had a horrible game against nebraska, but been consistant all year, he doesnt deserve it. Mark Ingram has clearly proved and has shown again and again over and over why he should be picked this year. He deserves it, end of story.
Ingram has played his heart out in every game, he made it obvious why he deserves it. Just because people hate bama, for some unknown reason, doesnt mean Ingram needs to be screwed out of the award!
well if nebraska would of beat Texas then they would be playing Alabama in the national championship. Then beloved "Suh" would get to play against Ingram and then watch ingram rush right past him and still prove why hes better. But they lost, boo hoo. Ingram's heart is in the game, and has went up against worse in the SEC then suh! Get over it, welcome to REAL football. GO INGRAM!
This is what one Heisman Hopeful does to another when they meet on the field.
Ingram isn;t even the best player on his team. McClain is their MVP and they have a great offensive line. Ingram shouldn't even be the starter his back-up is better than HIM. Next year he is second string as a heisman winner. Suh and Gerhart single handly beat teams. Without them neither team would be headed to a bowl. Plus put Suh against Ingram one on one and Suh would throw him around like he was in pee wee league. The Heisman is the biggest over-rated joke in college football. Media voters dont know their head from their ass when it comes to football.
.63 sacks a game besides that, you have to realize that a lot of players don't even get that in a season!! And to do 4.5 sacks against "an explosive offense" is pretty impressive. I seriously don't understand how anybody can say Suh isn't the best player in the country (at least on defense).
The award should go to Mark Ingram. He did what he did against SEC defenses. And he is one of the leaders of the #1 team in the Nation in all polls. He helped lead his team to the BCS National Championship Game. The award should go to the "best player", not the best stats. This is what Ingram did against the Nation's top defenses:
Virginia Tech, defense ranked 14th: 150 rushing yards 1 TD rushing, 1 TD rec.
Ole Miss, defense ranked 24th: 172 rushing yards 1 TD rushing
South Carolina, defense ranked 15th: 246 rushing yards 1 TD rushing
Tennessee, defense ranked 16th: 99 rushing yards
LSU, defense ranked 28th: 144 rushing yards
Florida, defense ranked 4th (1st before SEC Champioship): 113 yards rushing 3 TD's
Toby Gerhart ONLY faced 2 defenses ranked in the Top 30 nationally (Arizona St. 12 & Arizona 21). Gerhart carried the ball 311 times versus only 249 for Ingram. Alabama's 2nd leading rusher, Trent Richardson, had 126 carries for 642 yards! Stanford's 2nd leading rusher had 61 carries for 354. Alabama finished 13-0 in the strongest/toughest conference in the nation. Stanford only went 8-4 in one of the weakest conferences in the Nation!
Ingram should win it hands down! If he doesn't, it will be the biggest ripoff since Charles Woodson stole the award from Peyton Manning. And then our sorry Congress will step in & try to regulate the Heisman Trophy too!
exactly, if Ingram doesnt win, you will know it was a rip off! look at the player, just because you hate bama doesnt mean ingram should suffer, because he has clearly proved he deserves it!
I like this one:"Q: Any former Heisman winners had 5 sub 100 rush yrds gms; ave 2.95 ypc last 2 gms; outrush in 3 gms by backup? A: Mark Ingram"
my ballot would be
he has every other player at his position in cfb lapped. that just doesn't happen, folks. he was great last year too.
senior has gotten it done for two years, leads in yards and tds, good guy off field, also plays other sports. all that feel good stuff the heisman club likes. will represent the award well. however, i have seen 1,700 and 26 before. i have not seen 82 and 12 from a dt before. so gerhart is second.
having watched several games with gerhart and ingram, i'd have to give the edge to gerhart. he passes the eye test much more so than ingram. just mauls people. that power will translate well in the nfl. ingram seems to be the best of a platoon system. also, 1,500 and 15 stopped winning heismans in the seventies and are we going to give it to sophomores every year now? dion lewis will make it four in a row in 2010?
If Mark Ingram played in the PAC 10 he would have 10,000 yrds and 200 touchdowns. And who is Suh? Johnny Cash sang of him. A boy named Suh. No one ever heard of him until the last game of the season. McCoy only had about 5 good games. Ingram only had one bad game. We are seeing why Bama has never won the trophy though. None of the SEC school media are vioting for him. They are leaving him off tehir ballots because it is the only thing they hold over Bama. I think coaches and previous winners whould be the only voters. Media people are spiteful morons.
suh is not a one week wonder
he got noticed last year when he had 65 tackles and 7 sacks, which is what glenn dorsey had in his junior (best) year, while the nu defense got 100 yards better against the run that year after losing all of their starting LB to graduation.
a couple of outlets, notably SI and fox, were touting him from august. gene menez had him in his top 5 all year. he was projected as the first pick in the draft in the preseason.
suh is excellent against the run. i do not know the stats of teams that ran against nebraska, but i cannot recall a single great day by a player, though the more successful efforts against neb included quick slants and counters.
also, compare suh to the other marquee defensive tackles in college football. the stat discrepancy may surprise you. i remember looking at his and terrence cody's stats when they both blocked 2 fg the same day. suh had more than double cody's stats.
"Ingram plays his best against the best. Thats heisman"
Yet he plays mediocre against the mediocre (Auburn, Arkansas, FIU).
Thats not heisman.
PEOPLE TALK ABOUT INGRAM HAVING 3 BAD GAMES, THAT'S BULL. HE HAD 1 BAD GAME AGAINST THE MOST HEATED RIVALRY IN THE COUNTRY. THIS WAS A TEAM THAT HAD NOTHING TO LOSE AND SAID THERE GAME PLAN WAS TO STOP INGRAM AND LET THE QB BEAT THEM (WHICH HE DID) THE OTHER 2 GAMES INGRAM CAME OUT TO LET THE OTHER RB GET IN THE GAME. SABAN AND ALABAMA ALWAYS GO THE WAY OF THERE IS NO I IN TEAM. THATS THE REASON WE HAVE GONE 12-0 IN THE REGULAR SEASON THE LAST TWO YEARS AND WHY WE WILL CONTINUE TO DOMINATE THE SEC AND THE BCS. WHAT WILL STANFORD BE NEXT YEAR WUTHOUT AN EXPERIENCED RB? SUB .500. HERES TO YOU MARK INGRAM, THANKS FOR A YEAR TO REMEMBER.
SUH DID NOT GET IT DONE ON THE LAST DRIVE - HE COULD NOT FINISH - LACKING THE HEART OF A CHAMPION AS DOES GERHART.... BIG MARK WHEN SC GAME IN BALANCE EVERY YD OF THE DRIVE AND SCORED TD TO GO UP 2 SCORE POSSESSIONS TO SEAL THE DEAL... GERHART 4 LOSSES - DID NOT FINISH VS WAKE AND OREG ST 2 LOSSES AND LESS THAN A 100 YDS ... ONLY LOSERS LOSE 4 GAMES WHEN THE TEAM IS COUNTING ON HIM .. BUT WHAT WOULD YOU EXPECT FROM A RB AT STANFORD ONLY CHOP LIVER RBS GO TO STANFORD...REAL RBS GO TO SOCAL AND OREG
HEY DA LANE BAMA WOULD NOT HAVE PLAYED NEB FOR NC IF THEY HAD BEATEN TX
BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF ARK AND FIU DID NOT NEED MARK AND GOT BURNED BY FIU AND HAD TO CATCH UP WITH PASSING GAME
MT CODY WOULD HAVE DOUBLED GERHART IN SAME SITUATION - GERHART A BIG STIFF.....A GIMMICK....LIKE THE FRIDGE....HE COULD WIN IF HE DOES CORRUPT SOUTHERN VOTERS COMPLETELY LEFT OFF BALLOT BECAUSE OF RACISM AND DO NOT WANT BAMA TO GAIN ADVANTAGE
AND AGAINST AU - MARKS PLAYS WERE OVER CTR AGAINST 8 IN THE BOX USUALLY WOULD CHECK OFF BUT DID NOT WANT TO SHOW FL ANYTHING AND WHEN MARK WAS GIVEN A GOOD HE WAS HIS USUAL SELF
SUH A DT EASILY ACCOUNTED FOR AND A GOOD OC CAN MAKE HIM A NON FACTOR LIKE TX GW DRIVE
IF GERHART WAS BLACK HE'D
BE JUST ANOTHER STIFF FULLBACK
12 SACKS BIG DEAL THATS 12 PLAYS OUT OF 720 THAT S ONE PLAY A GAME WOW A BIG FACTOR .......................NOT SO MUCH.......BUT I AM GLAD FOR HE IS TAKING VOTES AWAY FROM THE REAL FRAUD GERHART
GERHART MAULED PAC 10 WUSSY DEFENSES BUILT TO STOP PASSES AGAINST WAKE OREG ST STUFFED LIKE HE WILL BE AGAINST OK WHERE HE WILL GET THE CRAP KNOCKED OUT OF HIM HE IS SO SLOW JUST A SITTING DUCK
IF INGRAM WINS OR LOSES GOOD CONSEQUENCES ....IF LOSES BAMA OLINE FIRED UP TO GIVE MI A GREAT DAY AND RUSH TO KILL MCCOY AND OK FIRED UP TO KILL THE TALENTLESS RON DAYNE TYPE STIFF
IF SUH COULD MAKE A PLAY WHEN IT MATTERED NEB BIG 12 CHAMPS...AND IF SUH HAD NOT RUSHED MCCOY , AND JUST LET MCCOY RUN OUT THE CLOCK NEB - BIG 12 CHAMPS
WHO BROKE OPEN THE GAME OF THE CENTURY WITH A 76 YD SCREEN PASS CUTTING AND WEAVING LIKE A BARRY SANDERS AGAINST THE FASTEST AND NUMBER ONE DEFENSE IN THE COUNTRY? ANSWER #22
11. I'll say it again, Mark Ingram is not the best back in the SEC West, Anthony Dixon is.
And now that the votes are in, hopefully the extremely august Heisman voters -- more on what clown shows many of these guys are soon -- took note of the fact that Anthony Dixon has outperformed Mark Ingram when the two backs have gone up against five similar opponents.
Here's what I wrote in last week's Starting 11:
"Dixon and Ingram happen to share five common SEC opponents -- Ole Miss, Arkansas, Kentucky, LSU, and Auburn. In those five games Dixon has rushed for 759 yards to Ingram's 537 and outgained him on a per carry basis 5.71 to 5.11."
So Ingram isn't even the best back in the SEC West. And, oh by the way, Ingram is also averaging fewer yards per game than 11 other backs, and five of those 11 backs average more yards per carry than Ingram does.
But Ingram plays for Alabama and most Heisman voters are lazy tools.
That's how they ignored Moore.
Ingram is a superstar. Dixon a tough solid SEC back. Ingram is a playmaker that won the LSU and took it over and changed the momentum.WWW.SECDIGITALNETWORK.COM
and beat the Fl gators into submission.Your big wuss was a loser whereas Jahvid Best is the superstar,
MARK INGRAM IS THE BEST PLAYER IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL.
Comment about ypc hype. Stanford's rushing offense, led primarily by Toby Gerhart, served many functions including eating up time, keeping the other team's offense off the field, resting their defense. The fact that Gerhart had 311 carries is a huge positive in this regards. And his excellence, endurance, protection of the football, stamina, wear on the other team's defense, are to his team's advantage. The main, irrefutable difference between these two runners is rushing touchdowns. Gerhart has 26 in 12 games and Ingram had 12 in 12 games and 15 in 13 games [and had 3 more receiving]. 26 is an amazing number of rushing touchdowns, check out past Heisman winners, and they weren't even mostly 1 or 2 yard scores. Plus Gerhart is a senior. If Ingram is the starter next year for Alabama, he'll have another chance. Still, the votes have been made and that's that. Whoever is going to win has already been decided. Gerhart and Ingram are both quality backs. Plus, Suh is an amazing tackle who had a very impressive game at exactly the right time. Whoever wins the Heisman doesn't really matter, the world will go on. But it has been an interesting process.
DIXON AND INGRAM HAD 6 COMMON OPPONENTS ADD THE FLORIDA GATORS
HA HA HA HA HA GERHART THE FRAUD HAD 106 CARRIES HIS FRESHMAN YR GOR A 3.5 YPC NEXT YR RODE THE BENCH 12 CARRIES.....INGRAM USED MIGHTILY IN BAME'S 12 AND 0 SEASON BACK UP TO NFL ER GLENN COFFEE,,,BEATING OUT SPEEDY TERRY GRANT 5 STAR BACK ROY UPCHURCH AND 5 STAR TRENT RICHARDSON #2 BACK IN THE NATION ,,,,,
GERHART HAD LESS THAN 500 YDS IN FIRST 2 YRS AND GOT DEMOTED AFTER FRESHMAN YR WITH A 3.5 YPC BECAUSE HE SUCKS ...INGRAM OVER 2000 YDS FIRST 2 YRS AND 10 X THE COMPETITION
GERHART A NO TALENT PLACE HOLDER TIL STANFORD GET S THE PASSING GAME ROLLING B/C GERHART CANNOT CARRY A TEAM EVEN THE LOWLY CARDINALS
3333333.............................5555555555555555 NO WONDER HARBRAUGH IS EMBARRASSED BY TOBY AND CONTINUALLY FORCES THE PASSING GAME B/C HE KNOWS WHAT THIS FAILURE IS LIMITED TO
I AM SO EMBARRASSED FOR THIS FRAUD
INGRAM PLAYED EXTENSIVELY AS A FRESHMAN AT THE GREATEST FOOTBALL PROGRAM AGAINST AN INCREDIBLE STABLE OF BACKS
8-5 STANFORD CARDINALS AFTER OK LOSS GOD HELP US FRON HAVING A HEISMAN 3.5 DOG
I have a math question. Does the reliability of region as a factor for prediction decrease according to other features of the race? For example, might our ability to predict be weakened if there is a lot of change in the final weekend, or if the number of truly viable (strong) candidates increases? It seems to me there may be some differences between voting behavior for the Heisman and other elections, and our ability to know this would be severally limited by the small number of cases we have to examine.
Bear...take a deep breath, turn caps lock off, now throw a cup of water on your computer so you don't embarrass yourself any further.
Bear is another dime a dozen football idot. If Suh wasn't such a spectacular athlete he wouldn't have pressured Texas so hard and the longhorns golden boy would have held the ball one second longer and lost the game. Suh goes a hundred miles an hour all the time. He will be a top five pick and and Inmgram will be drafted mid to late 1st round when he comes out and have a mediocre NFL career. I like bama they are good well coached team but Ingram success stems from this line not him. His backup proves it. He is middle of the pack RB playing for any other team. I follow the H trophy just to see these idiots post and laugh at them as they pump up their player. Bama is good Ingramm is average and the Heisman will slowly lose its luster as idiots vote purely on stats.
Kevin Scarbinsky of the Bham News wasted his vote on Rolando McClain. A great player, but no one else in the country saw the vote the same way Kevin saw the vote. He wasted his opportunity to provide Mark Ingram another first place vote and he should be ashamed of using this opportunity to make a personal statement. There are a lot of AL fans hurting in the job market, and AL's and Ingram's success is a shining star in their very difficult lives right now. How dare Kevin be so shallow.
It is entertaining to hear comments that someone should not be considered a viable candidate because some poster had never heard of them prior to the end of the season. That is really an admission by the poster that they don't follow college football outside their little fan bubble. Anyone who has not heard of any of the finalists (let alone the other candidates) until the very end of the season may state their opinion, but it is about as authoritative as the credibility of Cubans who claim they have the top health care simply because they have never seen any other. None of the finalists have suddenly appeared from nowhere.
This is a tough year for voters. Anyone who has watched college football knows that Gerhart and Ingram have both been studs for their teams. Both had a few off moments, but overall have played exceptionally well. I live in SEC country, and have seen plenty of Ingram. He is a superb back who will do well at the next level. I've seen less of Gerhart, but he looks like a strong straight-liner to me (more of a Mike Alstott type) who gets the job done. Suh also looks like a monster. Just a quick comparison with Bama's beast Mount Cody, who is also a stud, and Suh's chief competition at DT for most awards:
Interceptions Cody - 0 Suh - 1
Tackles Cody - 25 Suh - 82
Tackles for loss Cody - 6 Suh - 19.5
Sacks Cody - 0 Suh - 12
Pass breakups Cody - 1 Suh - 10
QB Hurries Cody - 3 Suh - 19
Forced fumbles Cody - 0 Suh - 1
Blocked kicks Cody - 2 Suh - 3
Cody's numbers are good for a DT, and Bama LB McClain has greatly benefited from having all 350 pounds of Cody clogging the middle. But Suh's numbers are frankly other-worldly for a DT, and are not from a single game. He is absolutely deserving of all of the attention he is getting, and should be mentioned in the same conversation with Ingram and Gerhart. Frankly, I'm glad I don't have to vote.
Kevin voted for the best player on the best team. HE is the best player on Bamas team he should be up for the heisman NOT Ingram. He is not at fault it is the rest of the media voters that cannot watch a football fame and anaylze the true playmakers. Most voters can only look at stats becuase they don't truely understand the game and each position. Very few truely understand more than one position on the field. I applaud Kevin but its unfortunate one vote cannot change the world.
Ha, someone finally understands football and voted for the best player on Bamas team. Nice work Kevin.
Toby Gerhart.....please!!! He wouldn't even make the three deep at runningback at Alabama. Heck he would probably be 2nd team on the scout team. Get real!
As to JR2's comparison of Cody and Suh...
Cody does not play on obvious passing downs so it makes it very hard to have a sack, interception or QB hurry.
Why is Cody even being discussed on the H...... website???????
Would posters like Lane please stop "contributing" to this thread? By saying that Nebraska would be playing 'Bama in the NCG if they would have beaten Texas shows that you have NO IDEA what you're talking about and that you should be summarily ignored. I can't say that I'm surprised you followed that gem by saying that anyone who doesn't vote for Ingram does so because they hate 'Bama. Way to bring something to the table.
For everyone that doesn't think Suh deserves an award intended to honor the most outstanding player in the nation, here's some knowledge for you: there are five other DTs that are projected first round draft picks in 2010. Combined, those players averaged 3.3 sacks, 39.8 total tackles and 8.8 TFL this season. Suh had 12 sacks, LED HIS TEAM with 82 total tackles and had 23 TFL, meaning he was roughly three times more productive than the other premier players at his position. THREE TIMES! And yes, that group of five players includes the great Terrence Cody, who I'm sure would have put up better numbers than Suh if he didn't play in the SEC. Give me a break.
Suh eliminated McCoy from contention by dominating him in the B12 title game. Tebow was just invited as a career achievement award, and Ingram should not be given the award just because he is the best offensive player on the #1 team in the country. Don't even give me the "tough SEC defense" routine either. Last time I checked, the Pac 10 (not including Stanford) had five teams ranked in the Top 40 in run defense. The SEC (not including Bama) has only two in the Top 40! And before you start on the "but the SEC is deeper than the Pac 10" garbage, the average Pac 10 run D is ranked 46th, while average SEC run D is ranked 61st.
So in reality, you can compare Gerheart and Ingram's numbers at face value. And when you do, neither stood out like Suh did.
I challenge anyone to make an argument for Ingram without mentioning the conference he plays in or what Alabama is ranked in the polls. Those things should be factors but in no way should they be the crux of any argument for him. And even if someone could convince me he is the best RB in the country, it should take more than that to win the award over someone of Suh's caliber.
Gerheart can't be considered because there are at least a dozen RBs in the country that would have been more productive than him with 311 carries. Yes, Toby led the nation in rushing but also led in carries. He ranked 51st in the nation in yards per carry. I have a hard time believing a one-dimensional running back (who contributes next to nothing in the passing game or return game) should rank 51st in ANY rushing category and win this award.
I brought up Cody because he can be directly compared to Suh by position, whereas Ingram and Gerhart cannot, and that comparison gives us a good idea of how remarkably dominant he has been at his position. You could also compare Suh to Oklahoma's outstanding DT Gerald McCoy, although McCoy is a junior. McCoy's stats also pale before Suh's. The fact that Cody didn't play in obvious passing downs whereas Suh did also attests to Suh's versatility and endurance. Cody is a wonderful guy (you gotta love his smile!), but Suh brings more dimensions to the game than any DT I've seen, and can outlast the bulk (no pun intended...) of them on the field. He is deserving of serious Heisman consideration, in my opinion, regardless of who was so colloquial that they didn't know who he was until the end of the season. Many of us knew about him long before that. The Big 12 championship was just an exclamation point on his season.
Suh, the big man, deserves the Heisman, he is at this time the best college football player in the nation. We will be seeing him for a long time on Sunday and the Big 12 Championship proved to the country that he is a big time player.
Strength of schedule. Defensive ratings of teams on that schedule. High profile games. Clutch performances. Best player on best team. INGRAM-- Roll Tide Roll
Once again, I must state if you are true Bama fan and honest with yourself, you know Ingram is not truely the best player on the Crimson Tides team. If you polled the players they would agree. McClain is a far better player and far more important to their success.
Ingram isn't even the best RB his back-up is better than he is. I'm gonna laugh next year when a heisman winner isn't even the starter.
this must be some really good Kool-Aid.....
"I'll say it again, Mark Ingram is not the best back in the SEC West, Anthony Dixon is."
Trying to spin Standford's strength of schedule into something that is anywhere near Alabama's is a joke. You just have to watch and you can see that the level of play, just isn't comparable.
I'm no Alabama fan and I really do like Stanford a lot. You just have to be realistic.
I am not a stat guy but I love the site. I can appreciate people doing something I have no desire to do but I have a question (probably stupid) about what the site says...
"We've been right seven out of seven years, with our winning vote projection off by an average of only 1.8%. Damn good."
Here's my question:
2002 Carson Palmer 5.3% off
2003 Jason White 1.5% off
2004 Matt Leinart 1.6% off
2005 Reggie Bush 3.8% off
2006 Troy Smith 2.4% off
2007 Tim Tebow 3.1% off
2008 Sam Bradford 1.3% off
Okay, correct my thinking if I am wrong but if you add up the offage percentages (19.0%) and divide by the number of years of doing this (7) I do not come up with an average of only being off by 1.8%.
This is what I come up with 19.0% / 7 years = 2.7% off
Can you show me how you come up with 1.8%?
The teams Stanford beat were a combined 42-54. The teams that beat them (including 5-7 Wake Forrest)were just 29-19 (66% teams as a whole). Going out of conference to play Wake,Notre Dame, and San Jose State (and only going 2-1 in the process) when you play in the PAC-10 (and a down year for that soft conference to boot) - you really can't boast about statistics compiled under THOSE conditions.
YPC is stupid for this argument. If Gerhart wasn't the ONLY weapon on his team, he wouldn't have had to carry the ball so many time in many disadvantageous positions. He isn't one dimensional, in fact he has great hands. Unfortunately he's the best pass blocker on the team so Stanford leaves him in to block on passing plays or else their freshman quarterback will get sacked. To the stupid bear guy who thinks Toby was benched his sophomore year, he tore a ligament in his knee his sophomore year in the first half of the first game of the season. In that 1 HALF, he ran for 150 yards and 3 touchdowns. He then recovered to play for the NCAA Baseball Final Four Cardinal team in a season that featured him hitting 3 home runs in the College World Series.
The success of Ingram's backup should show that Ingram is not outstanding, but rather just a guy. He's just a guy who is getting carries and if his back up who has been just as productive got them, then he would have the numbers. Gerhart, however, is the only guy who could succeed on the average Cardinal team as he runs through the 9 defenders in the box every play and breaks the tackles of three defenders almost every time he touches the ball. Finally, anyone who thinks that the SEC dominates the Pac-10 might consider that the Pac-10 is 10-6 against the SEC over the last 10 years. That is to say, when the game is decided on the field and not by bullshit board posters, the Pac-10 wins more often than not.
ALL THAT SAID: I'm just making these points to show that Ingram SHOULD NOT win the award. It's hard to make an argument against Suh (huge numbers, has a chance to go #1, elevated his team) or Colt McCoy (senior leader on one of the best teams in the country, plays toughest position, shoulders load, sure struggled against Nebraska, but obviously has had an outstanding career). How those two guys plus Toby Gerhart are not #1, #2, and #3 is beyond me. You have to look at what a guy does for his team!
NDAMU KING KONG SUH!!!!!!
this award should go to the most outstanding player, Look out folks, there's a SUH-NAMI coming to town. Even the sportscasters said it is unfair when Ndamukong Suh is on the field because he is the most dominant player out there.
According to this week’s NCAA statistics, Ingram faced six of the top 28 defenses in the country (No. 4 Florida, No. 14 Virginia Tech, No. 15 South Carolina, No. 16 Tennessee, No. 24 Ole Miss and No. 28 LSU). And in those six games, Ingram rushed for 924 yards, averaging 154 yards per game and scoring seven touchdowns. - Chris Low of ESPN
very simple.. wanna see who can pull the most votes in the shortest time from the fans... do an online poll with the 5 finalists.. I got 20 bucks says that no one will be close to Suh.. espn wont even do polls with Nebraska in them anymore.. we OWN them
More facts to add color to this arena:
Mark Ingram stats: 13 games 249 attempts 6.19 average 15 TD's 1,542 yards-119/game
Ken Clark stats: 12 games 232 attempts 6.45 average 12 TD’s 1,497 yards-124/game
Who are these guys? Ingram everyone knows. A great back from Alabama who is in the hunt for the Heisman.
Ken Clark graduated from Nebraska in 1989. Was twice All Big 8 but never even sniffed All American and is 5th on the Huskers record book for season rushing record. No disrespect to Kenny, but just another back by Husker standards.
My point, again: This is an average year for the skilled positions. This is further proof that there were no outstanding players in the skilled positions. Nothing against these guys, it was just an average year. This is a year voters should look to other positions. Suh will be one of the first 5 players drafted and by several scouts, the first.
I understand the Bama fans wanting to get their first Heisman trophy; us Husker fans want Suh to accomplish something never before thought possible - to win the Outland (tonight), the Lombardi (already done), the Nagurski (already done), the Bednarik (tonight) and maybe one of more of the "offensive" awards (a/k/a the Heisman, the Maxwell or the Walter Camp; awards for the best player but now given only to offensive skilled positions). If he wins the Heisman it will be the fourth Husker to do so. Winning the Heisman and all those defensive awards would be incredible and may never happen again. If you were in our position, you would want nothing less.
Bama is back and I know how you guys feel - we have been crap for too many years now. Bama is one of the storied programs in the country and it should be in the top 5-10 year after year. So should Nebraska - the Bear and Bob Devaney would be dancing on the clouds to see our teams battle each other like the old days. Bo is bringing SEC style defense to the Big 12 and Bob and Mack have to be losing sleep over what is coming to the party the next few years. Defense wins championships and that is why I predict Bama over UT by at least 17 points; maybe a blow out.
Good luck to ya all - we all have something to be proud of. If Ingram wins the Heisman that is fine with me.
Watch the award ceremony and see what they show/say about Suh - he really is a remarkable player. The Huskers have now won 13 Lombardi or Outland trophies and as one who watched all these guys play I can confidently say that Suh is the best of them all.
"Ingram AND OUR O LINE" It would be stupid to reward one player for the excellent play of 5 others. Suh puts up nasty numbers and changes games without the help of anybody else. In fact, he does so with double and triple teams
What do stupid fans and homers and their votes have to do with who is actually the best player in the country? This is why people like Troy Smith and Jason White win. Why? Because people are dumb. According to the fan votes, CJ Spiller is the Heisman winner by a landslide. That tells you everything you need to know.
For futher evidence, take for example, the guy up there who says that Ingram should win because he faced blah blah ranked defense in the country. YO DUDE, WHY DON'T YOU LOOK AT OPPONENTS RUSHING DEFENSE when you're TALKING ABOUT RUNNING BACKS?
Gerhart played against the FRIGGIN #1 RUSH DEFENSE IN THE COUNTRY: Oregon State, and had 100 yards and 2 TD's, even with his freshman quarterback going 12/30 and forcing no defender to respect the pass.
Gerhart played against the FRIGGIN #4 RUSH DEFENSE IN THE COUNTRY: USC, and had 178 yards and 3 TD's en route to handing USC the worst beat down in their storied program's history.
Gerhart also ran over #14 (UCLA) and #21 (Arizona St.).
Ingram played only one team with a rush D inside the top ten (#10 Florida). They give up more yards, yards per carry, and TD's than Oregon State or USC. He played #12 LSU (again, no comparison to the 2.3 yards per carry of teams like USC and Oregon State). He played no other rushing defense even worth mentioning.
Get it right, homer.
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